Monday, April 02, 2007

There have been many comments on other sites that refer to this blog, apparently by people who have either not spent sufficient if any time reading it to understand the contents, or wish specifically to misrepresent what is written here on other sites. Many of these posters have taken the approach of insulting the character of SRCM dissenters such as myself. Recently, the official SRCM.org website was updated to again allow disciples to comment on our blogs (they had been forbidden to do so last year). In that comment we dissenters are described as being "at various stages of our own development" suggesting that disciples ignore our activities and only refer to the Master. This of course implies that we are not sufficiently evolved spiritually to be worthy of having a valid opinion. In addition it shows little confidence on behalf of the SRCM hierarchy, in the discrimination abilities of its disciples to process information from various sources such as this blog and others.

Some disciples indeed have started to post comments on various blogs about SRCM since this new policy allowing them to do so. A few have choosen to make comments regarding my blog as far from the actual source without referencing this blog directly so that readers only identify my name, some vague reference to my blog, and a condescendingly implying that I may not be sufficiently spiritually inclined or informed to have a valid opinion. So it now appears in word and in action that this is the new "official" approach to handling those who question the direction that the SRCM has taken over the years. I recently posted the comment below in response to a few anonymous commenters in Shashwat's site.


I've put it here as a sort of "readers digest" summary of the points made in this blog. I believe it also reflects the key points made on the sites of Elodie, Alexis, 4d-Don, and others. I hope that this helps keep discussions here and elsewhere on track as disciples respond. I am happy to say that not all disciples have taken this tact as a few have commented on this site making their points respectfully.



All,

I fear we are getting into personal assaults, and sarcastic insults as opposed to having an actual debate or dialog. I am also somewhat amused that some SRCM members choose to criticize the contents of my blog in remote comment pages such as this where my words cannot be cross referenced. They have not even the courtesy to include the link to my blog for reference which makes their motives appear to be nothing other than an attack against my character without any substance.

So for reference of anyone who chooses to read it, my blog is: innercircleofsrcm.blogspot.com

I'd like to make a couple of points in my defense:

1. I do not judge Chari, Babuji or Lalaji as individuals, nor do I question their spiritual approach, but it is within my rights as a thinking human being to have opinions about their actions and the results of their actions. It is also my human birthright to choose who I should trust and obey based on my own discrimination. I should be free to explain to others how I came to choose whom I trust and obey and whom I do not and why.

2. I make no claims to my own spiritual approach, however not claiming to be a Master or in the "Central Region" does not negate the validity of my arguments.

3. I reinforce this by encouraging all who comment on my blog that their experiences and personal analysis and opinions are valid and worth considering. I discourage comments that are not based on personal experiences and simply reiterate SRCM doctrine without thoughtful analysis.

4. I have striven to provide only verifiable facts on my blog that I can reference or have directly experienced. I've also clearly identified where comments are my analysis and opinion and base them on facts not myths or hearsay.

5. There is no intention to convince people in SRCM to leave. I state this from the beginning of my blog and repeat it throughout. My objective is to simply to state the facts and clear the air with regards to my experiences and departure from SRCM for others to make their own conclusions. This has obviously caused a problem within SRCM as evidenced by the personal attacks on me and my character.


I have worked hard to make my points with truthfulness, and integrity. I may have angered some by being a little too critical of their comments, and I apologize for any hurt feelings. In every instance, however, I have striven to abide by what I have outlined above.

Since many commenting here will likely not take the time to actually read my Blog in detail yet use its title as a basis for sarcastic conclusions, I'll make my key points here. I'll keep them simple:

1. In the late 70s SRCM was presented as a light organizational structure established to provide spiritual training.

2. Training was offered for free. Books were few and very affordable. The practice was practical for a typical householder with a family and career. The practice was not marketed to the community, but was simply made available, by word of mouth, to those interested. There was no urgent need to grow numbers. Quality not quantity was the motto. The Guru was a friend and a guide, not one who was worshiped. Meditation was taught out of the homes of preceptors and disciples. Discrimination of what is right and wrong was supposed to be developed as part of the practice. Gatherings were done in rented halls and peoples homes. These were the principles in which attracted myself and many others at that time.

3. As one got more involved, one discovered that SRCM claimed to provide exclusive access to higher reaches of development. In other words, no other system could compare. The Master was deemed as the highest living evolved Master and it was eluded to that he might be "the special personality" sent to this world to do divine tasks and we were fortunate to be associated with such a person.

4. Rancor existed between senior preceptors during Babuji's days. There was a major rift between P. Rajagopalachari and several other senior members as well as Babuji's sons. This rancor only continued in Babuji's death.

5. As SRCM evolved, meditation training and gatherings required purchased property by SRCM. Disciples were constantly expected to purchase expensive books and book subscriptions. The Organization itself became an entity that one must serve and be obedient to.

6. Unquestioning obedience became expected of every disciple. The concept of developing Discrimination appears to have been eliminated, apparently as this goes counter to unquestioning obedience and implies that such obedience must be earned out of the discrimination of the disciple not demanded by the Master. Not only had obedience to the Master become something demanded but now obedience to the Mission was added as a critical element to the practice. Disciples are regularly criticized for not being sufficiently obedient and unquestioning of the Master and the Mission as evidenced by several published talks by PR, many of which have conveniently been removed from their websites after dissenters such as myself referenced them in our blogs.

7. An Inner Circle is a necessary tool for any hierarchical organization. It can be used to establish order and protect the integrity of an organization. Conversely it can become a manipulative power structure to control and manipulate members of the organization. My blog discusses this in detail as it applies to spiritual AND secular organizations. I also indicate what I believe are key characteristics of a power based Inner Circle from my own personal experience in spirituality and business.

8. The SRCM organization has broken into at least three splinter groups. Accusations of poisonings and even murder have been exchanged between PRs SRCM and the primary opposing splinter group run by Babuji's family. There continues to be a legal battle over who owns the Emblem, the SRCM moniker, and the property. This indicates that there is something of value and/or power contained in controlling these things.

9. My thesis is that the drifting from the basic principles occurred over the years due to the insistence on creating an exclusive organization, claiming exclusive access to the highest level of human attainment, requiring access to an single living man, no other, to get you there. Out of this grew a culture of power and control. Wealth was created from this power over the years and, as a result, many fight over control of the power and wealth that has grown since the SRCM inception.

10. I would argue that unless SRCM returns to these basic principles and eliminate the concept of exclusivity, these problems will continue. I reference the Yogic and Sufi traditions from which SRCM was derived, and note that they have avoided these downfalls for centuries by avoiding establishment of exclusivity in the Master, Organization or Methods used to train aspirants.


If we want to have a constructive conversation, lets discuss these points. Unfortunately, it appears that the only method to debate these facts and opinions is to insult the one presenting them with degrading, uninformed and sarcastic comments. I will maintain my points and respect opposing points and arguments.

This is a public record, and those who choose to attack dissenting opinions by insulting their character or implying spiritual inadequacy will not stand up to public scrutiny, and I see little point in responding directly beyond what I have done here.

Michael

46 comments:

4d-Don said...

Hi Michael and all...

I got this off Elodie's blog in Europe...Is this not a strange thing this lady was not aware of Chari during a long time...Is that possible?

People who say there is not "negative effect" to leaving the Mission don't take into consideration, the effect of spirit and intellect on emotions and hence on the physical or material body

4d-don...



Hello, Elodie…

I allow myself to answer your blog, because I belonged to SHRI RAM CHANDRA MISSION, 1988 to 1992, for 2 years with the Mission of Shahajanpur, not knowing that there was a “Master Living” of the name of Parthasarathi RAJAGOPALACHARI and 2 years with CHARI. There were considerable preceptors in Belgium, since I am Belgian, of which: Carine LEMAITRE, her sister Muriel LEMAITRE and their father GILBERT LEMAITRE; there was also Delphine SALKIN. With regard to the preceptors and the full-preceptors which I remember, in France, I had the occasion to meet: Jacky BARUCK and François DEROULEDE of Paris, Patrick FLEURY of Sanary-sur-mer (VAr) and Madeleine, who also lived in the South of France. I went many times to the Castle of Augerans and I remained in India, in 1991, for 4 weeks, and in 1992, for 7 weeks and I also met“Kasturi” there, which did not make me very impressed, I must say…

And it is after the latter voyage that I began to ask many questions and that I finally understood! And I dropped out, not without sadness and without difficulties… I have many health problems since… I will re-contact you to speak to you about my feelings in connection with true spirituality and about the meditation, if you allow me to! ? !

So long, Elodie.

Very cordially,

Marie-Louise.

Anonymous said...

Hi all...

I thought you would like to know that Chari in 2001 started another "education Society". This is his site for that one called the Chariji Education Development Society:
http://www.cedsociety.com/

The stated purpose is:

...the sole object of rendering active service to reduce commercialization in education field.

And the very next sentence:

And to give equal importance of both academic education and spiritual education by teaching value based spiritual education in the school named as “SRI GURUKRUPA VIDYA NILAYAM”.

So the Religious and nationalist agenda seems to be the important one for Chari. Schools to endoctrinate the kids and not a "meditation" group for "adults only" as Sahaj Marg was to be according to Babuji.

The Religious "boarding school" which OMEGA is now, is not a good model as the "obedience" of school and LOVE and Fear mechanisms of Religion are too much power in the hands of "teachers". The child is at their mercy and we know the "potential" for abuse in that "model"...

4d-don

Anonymous said...

Dear Gentlemans,

Glad some one is there to talk about the mission.I am impressed about your views.
In respect to meditation till date nothing went wrong for me.I have list of endless things and exprience about the mission.

So please continue to show your views so that it can generate the positive way for the person like me to continue and explore the possiblities of liberation from this world.

Thank you, your Abyasi Brother

Anonymous said...

Dear Friend,
All what anyone can teach you is within yourself. It is, as often quoted, not in any path or person but inside of you. The master or the method only serves as to help you understand this.
Often times we come across situation where due to our habituated tendencies, we tend to get attached to the path/person/ideas and then go through a whole song and dance sequence before we understand this.
This very sequence is called life, colored in as many as the varying inclinations of men.
The good and the bad together serve a purpose in their own right and hold the manifestation of the universe in balance.
The questions and frustrastions that occured in your mind is a part of your quest, before you understand that the only obstacle that limits your development is yourself just as the only one that really helps you out is again yourself.
the master you see in Chariji, Christ, Babuji, Mohammad, Buddha is just yourself. When it is time for you to know this, life will put you in circumstances and situations, that will assist you to understand through the nature of things. Either pleasantly or otherwise, as it already has. So that it can help you see the real purpose behind all your effort.

..And then suddenly, everything will seem right and in place.

good luck

Anonymous said...

Dear anonymous

Good for you that you don't see anything wrong with the Mission.

Having been a catholic, I did not see anything wrong there either, but it was there for me to see. My eyes were shut by my "addiction" and my "habits". We see the same phenomenon in all addictions, it is only when the object of your addiction is remonved, or that it does not do the job of "intoxicating" that the addict is able to see his "attachment" and hence not "liberation". In Sahaj Marg, that attachment is to a Man, made of matter, and a Mission made of stone and mortar. And the "addict" according to Chari is to "obey" above all other rituals. Not meditate or do the practice but to "OBEY".

The abuses that went on in the Churches did not deplete the numbers of followers immediately and it took decades and centuries for them to surface, but most important, it took the Information Revolution. Things will go faster now and the "drug dealers" (Religions and cults) of the Masses will not be so "protected" by the societal MEDIA and Information system that historically, would not address such abuses as they, as the societal elite, were part of the "dirty little secret".

What took centuries for the Catholic Church took years for Sahaj Marg. We are cathching the potential for abuse as SRCM builds their "Religious Boarding Schools" and targets the Children as most religions do. You will not see the abuses there either but the victim will be able to "be heard" as the victims of Sahaj Marg are now. You as an adherent, can block you ears but we are there. You can "patronize" and "give us your advice" so that we go away, but Sahaj Marg DIVIDES...Deal with it or block us out. Either way, we will tell the world and try and protect the next wave of victims (children and women) that would support your pyramidal, autoritarian and un-democratic "structure".

To see, you must look. In Sahaj Marg, only the "inner circle" can see and hence knows. You, the serf, and the foot soldier only have to "obey". Michael was of the "inner circle" and I believe his story. If he was one person, I could doubt it and no one would be wiser. But the numbers are growing and it has even reached the families of the Founder, his friend, Dr. Varadachari, Sister Kasturi, (the only Saint in Sahaj Marg) and many others...and you are still content and see nothing...

Check the court cases and you will see..

"Would you rather be Plato or a contented pig?" is the old philosophical question... To be Plato, you must open your eyes and your mind and your ears. To benefit or profiteer from a group that divides and then persecutes and "shuns" others is not a sign of "spirituality" and "liberation" but of "addiction" and "attachment"

Just my humble opinion...

4d-don

4d-don said...

Hi Michael and all...


Interesting site
This is from: http://www.angelfire.com/sc3/1010/kayasiddhi1.html
and was placed on Tell me Truth India and Orkut...
http://tmtindia.blogspot.com/2007/01/justice-should-be-for-all-not-only-for.html
http://www.orkut.com/CommMsgs.aspx?cmm=24873318&tid=2539431344741523724&start=1

Prof. M.A.Padmanabha Rao
114 Charak Sadan, Vikas Puri, New Delhi 110018,
raomap@yahoo.com, Ph:25610941

By a professor (above) who witnessed something strange when Babuji was dying: Is it true?? Only the shadow knows for sure and what is the meaning? This gentleman puts his name to it and does not draw conclusions but certainly is "surprising" to me also... if true!!

His "serving" does not mean to become an abhyasi but to "save"...

Directly from his site:

Ramachandra of Ramachandra mission

The third saint whom my wife and myself served was Ramachandra of Ramachandra mission of Sahajahanpur in Uttarpradesh. When I was admitted in the private ward at AIIMS, New Delhi, my daughter Hima as a child peeped every room and made friendship. She entered into minister’s room and had a chat with him. She told me “Dad, there is a Swamy ji at the end of the corridor. He has lots of visitors”. On her suggestion, I peeped into the room. An eighty-year-old gentleman was lying in coma. Next to Him, a nurse was standing. When I entered the room, Parthasarathy His follower introduced me to his wife and the nurse, and told me about Swamy ji. In the meanwhile, I saw blood was profusely bleeding from tracheotomy tube. Had I not seen it, Swamy ji situation would have been worse. Surprisingly, Mrs. Parthasarathy or the nurse did not notice the same. Immediately, my wife and myself contacted the doctors and got the bandage made. This is how we served even the third Swamy ji as predicted by Balaji. Actually, my destiny of serving three saints or sanyasies in my life was over by early 1983.



4d-don

Bart said...

Hello
May i remember our bro & sister abhyasis that SRCM/Sahaj Marg was spotted out as a dangerous sectarian cult by french parliamentary commission on "sectes" n°2468, 1687 and recently 3507, www.assemblee-nationale.fr and far more dangerous for children in www.miviludes.org report of 2003 on page 80 (pdf document)...
Belgian commission and www.ciaosn.be are thinking of listing also SRCM as sectarian cult.
What is the real tight between Chari and terrotrist tamil TIGER organization??? Is it just financial?
Cordially, Bart

Links:

Mivilude's report 2003
http://www.miviludes.gouv.fr/article.php3?id_article=100
arliamentary investigation's commission 2006 report 3507:
http://www.miviludes.gouv.fr/article.php3?id_article=188

HS said...

To All,
I begin with the apparent disadvantage against this comment of mine, which may put me in a weak position of credibility due to the lack of outwardly intellectual leanings of what I am about to say.

I understand that all those who have been discontent with SRCM, have their reasons and those reasons are worthy of investigation.
Inner Circles are by definition divisionist, and a MASTER , or a Guide cannot be accessible to all and everyone. It would be detrimental if thousands of people got the chance to meet a GUIDE as and when they pleased. A Human Body imposes certain limitations, which must be understood and maintaned. The Inner Circle restricts physical contact with the MASTER, for the sole reason that, if he is accessible to everyone at all times, his physical integrity could be compromised.

How many times have abhyasis asked him the same questions, the same questions which he has answered in his lectures and books. Abhyasis feel a sense of ego-fulfillment in being able to converse with the MASTER, to dine with him, to travel with him, and to be able to associate with him physically, for they live in a Cartesian-material world and their beliefs stem from the reality which they exist in.

None of what you say can be dismissed by those inside the Mission, since those inside may be as blind as you are. Those inside may have reasons as credible and respectable as the reasons you proscribe. This is not a question of right or wrong, but that of finding answers.

Faith is a difficult thing, but faith is necessary in many matters. What those matters are, cannot be known a priori, but depends on personal judgement, which can be erroneous too.

If a Mother, tells her son of six, that he should call a certain man his father, the son has to only obey for he has the faith that his mother knows. He can question, investigate, but what good that would bring. I am in no way saying that you are children who are questioning when you must beleive, but I am only saying that sometimes, acts of faith are needed in the face of apparent digressions from what you may think should be the norm.

Most abhyasis even today, the ones in SRCM, criticize the Master from digressing from Babuji's ways. With Babuji not physically with us, who should then take forward his legacy as he wanted it to be?
Who knows best what Babuji would have done in the present time?
Changing with the times is what change should be about?

If the religious schools of Christianity have harbored paedophiles, and created indoctrinated-blind young people from the impressionable children that were given to them to be reared, does that mean, that one should abandon the religious school system altogether.

If a Knife can kill, it can also be used constructively to contribute towards putting food on the table.

Your concerns for the safety of children are respectable, but given a chance, the SRCM school system may just work. Do you think the Public School systems are the ones we must adhere to, but many a serial killer have come from public schools?
Or Private elitist schools are the way to go, but a lot of corporate fraudsters went to such expensive private schools as well.

How many of us, try to understand Sahaj Marg in a holistic manner? Most of us, including abhyasis in the SRCM, get frustrated with the lack of physical access to the master, and either spend their time sitting outside his room criticizing the way things are being run, or leave.
The ones who stay and criticize are as good as the ones who leave. Neither of the two are wrong, but both are missing the point.

If all of you feel that you have been wronged by a power-monger called "Chari" and his Inner Circle, then why did not any of you approach Chari directly and question him on his face? Sending Emails, writing Blogs can be Plan B. Why not go to him personally, ask for a moment in private and put this questions before him?

You may say that even to do this, the Inner Circle cam in your way and thwarted your advances and that is believable too, but after a few trials, you would have gotten through to him.

The opposition to a One Man Centric Cult, that you say SRCM has become, includes the assumption that such One Man Centric cults are dangerous/detrimental because they are centered around one person?

Can you present a better model? A 2 person centered cult/sect/organistation would be a better one? A Council of elders? A pantheon of Mythic Gods and Goddesses is what would set things right?

I reiterate the fact that, all what I have said will be met with counter arguments which will also stand on reasonable ground, but I wish only to seek answers for the ideas i have stated above.

Making the mission grow in numbers has become the new trend. What is the harm in taking something that those in the mission think is good, to the masses?

Charging money for special edition books and souvenirs is only a way to collect funds to facilitate large gatherings. Whispers was made available free of charge on the SRCM websites and people who critcized SRCM of being Rich-friendly, found that they were getting the material for free.

Why is it that we expect everyone in SRCM to be like saints? Why do we expect SRCM to work without internal politics ? Which Group of People on this planet, wether organized or unorganized dont have such transgressions?
Why are people, in SRCM also, looking at human failings of those individuals who are in close physical proximity of "Chari".

It is said that, every Master dies at the hands of his disciples. Chrsit could not escape it. I am a young(early twenties) guy, who has found a lot of practical knowledge by being in SRCM. I take SRCM for what it can do for me to change my life for the better. Either I ascribe all the good and bad in my life to it, or take all responsibility squarely upon myself. I choose the latter, for I dont like blaming anyone, not do i like taking credit away from myself when I think i deserve it.

SRCM has been a guiding paradigm in my life and CHARI has been its voice. I do not care much for the Inner Circle of the people who are around him, etc. I have always got to meet him when I wanted to, and I am usually for the most part, content with just seeing him. I do not think you( those who left) will see my point just the same way I cannot see yours.

I do not have the intention or the ability to pray or make my prayers work towards bringing you back. I dont think I care about those who join or leave. It is their Will, and what is right for a person is what works for him. This works for you, so be it! I just wish to seek answers for the ideas I have stated above.

I would be glad to receive ideas and thoughts on these matters.
God is smaller than the smallest and larger than the largest, at the same time. We can seek him anywhere and everywhere. If SRCM claims to be the only path to God, then to prove it wrong, let someone bring forth a way that is as good, or better than Sahaj Marg. If not, then let Sahaj Marg make its claims, or should it claim that its just as good as Hinduism, Christianity etc? Would that be acceptable? wont people from these religions ask SRCM to prove their claims?
Or should SRCM claim to be the worst way to reach GOD?
Should it claim nothing at all, and just not make mention of what it is?

Shashwat makes a mockery of Whispers from the Brighter World and it just seems a little unnecessary, but if that gets his job done, then why not!

In any case, I maybe farthest from the truth than all of you, but I have questions and I'd rather be a wandered searching for answers than be content with the answers given to me.
Please let me know your thoughts.
thank you for your patient reading.

-HS, NJ, USA

Michael said...

HS,

Thanks for taking the time to post here.

First of all, I cannot speak for Shashwat or others, but only for my own experience. This is my blog, all are welcome to comment, but please do not confuse the different voices in this debate.

1. I have written it in this very blog and agree that an Inner Circle has is necessary elements as long as its not used to exploit the masses and withhold information or mis-inform.

2. I did approach Chari personally, He was evasive and would not discuss my concerns directly, but instead changed his story in every attempt and used the position of preceptorship as a prize for my silence and taking a low profile. Others have apparently had the identical experience in trying to resolve issues they have with him.

3. There is nothing wrong with changing an orgaizaiton with the times, but if SRCM is to change to a Religion, as it appears to be doing, then it should also cease criticizing other religions (like Christianity) and acknowledge its transition to a faith based organziation from an experience based spiritual path, that embraces all relligions.


4. What I would do differently? - Sell all property, give it to the poor. Embrace all religions, eliminate references to SRCM and its Master as being the exclusive and only path to God and acknowledge a peer system for spiritual trainers/masters as a check and ballance - establish a light organizational structure to facilitate communication and community - But that is the structure that has been used in Yoga and Sufism for centuries and was the tradition that Lalaji came from - it has provided the checks and balances ain those traditions and produced great results. I beleive that there was no need to eliminate the very tradition that Lalaji came from to create this organizaiton.

5. Perhaps the concerns about stories such as "Whispers of the Brighter World" are that it is based on an anonymous person's visions and appears to be a vehicle to say whatever could be said to validate the Master rather than allow the disciple to use their own experience and discrimination. Such stories overwhelm the direct experience of a disciple and instead requires them to trust and believe the dreams of an anonymouse individual. Again, a sign that SRCM has evolved to a faith based religion rather than an experience based spiritual path. Nothing wrong with this as long as SRCM as an organization can be honest with itself and the world around it that this is what it chooses to become.

6. I have associated my self with the Christian Church. I continue my spiritual practice without hinderance there, and have, to date been free to be part of that community without being required to blindly follow the directions of the Human organization that runs it. They would not make me a priest without it being my decision as SRCM made me a Preceptor, nor would I be removed from the position without being consulted or warned of my transgressions. I criticize the church and its history for its human failures - participating in wars, inconsistencies in doctrine, etc., without being told that I should blindly accept these things. I find sufficient diversity in the community to allow me to exist as who I am. I am free to associate with a vast array of teachers. This was not the case with my experience in SRCM.

I do not judge those who benefit from their association in SRCM and value the community they are part of. Its sad though, that Chari is getting old and has not directly settled issues that he created with people like myself and the hundreds of others who have left over the years for similar reasons. This blog for me has cleared my conscience and allowed me to put the past behind me by providing my truthful experiences and analysis into the public eye.

The response from SRCM appears to be an official statement that people like myself am not sufficiently evolved to have a valid opinion so disciples like yourself should disregard my words and only refer to Chari. So perhaps you should do just that, and personally discuss the contents of this blog with Chari and let us know if your attempt to discuss these matters result in a response that is any less elusive and condescending?

Michael

4d-Don said...

Hi HS

I appreciate your remarks and their candor. I appreciate and concur with Michael's reply also.

There are quite a few points that I don't accept from a "spiritual" path that I see others accepting from a "religion" or other "ism" so as to "belong" to the group. Loneliness is not a criteria for accepting a "dogma" in my books. Here is a short list of my concerns from the SRCM TEACHINGS:


1. GOD IS MALE, NATURE IS FEMALE!

This is not YOGA, not SPIRITUAL. The ONE (as opposed to the Gothic GOD) is not gender-based, but as a SPIRIT has no "ATTRIBUTES" of duality attached to IT. We can say that we are not sure that God is not MALE but we know that NATURE is not FEMALE! I am a male in NATURE. Nature is then MALE/FEMALE/NEUTER. OR SHE/HE/IT ... If you say it fast, and add a "hillbilly" accent, you have "sheet"...lol

2. Homosexuality is "un-natural" and is an abuse of "human rights legislation".

Nature has among many species that we know of, allowed for "homosexual" practices for many reasons: population control, bonding, etc..

Homosexuality exists IN NATURE and even though I can see religions of "days gone by" (when population density was much lower) stating that it was not "GOD's wish" and/or "not good for the TRIBE", in today's world where the population is reaching the planet's breaking point, we should "BLESS" our homosexual family members for not making more babies.

The words and TEACHINGS of Chari on Homosexuality are not "elevated" and/or "COMPASSIONATE". SRCM since Chari, is just another regressive "RELIGION".

3. Women can't be MASTERS because they are not capable of the destruction (on a "cosmic scale" according to an email from Chari) that is demanded by the ONE (the MALE GOD OF CHARI's Vaishnava's fundamentalism) from a MASTER.

NOW talk about "APOCALYPTIC CULT".
Get real! I have grand-daughters and I will speak against allowing that "POOP" in my country in the name of "SPIRITUALITY". It is not even "constitutional" (in the logic of the "lowly masses". We are still trying to get the "OLD STUFFY" religions to change those archaic tenets originated by past "old boys networks. Now you, as an adherent and proselytizer of SRCM, would bring it to our shores and to our "daughters" in the name of "going to GOD" or the "natural Path....GET REAL! It's just a "control mechanism". Control the Women and you have a RELIGION as they do all the real work and bring the "CHILDREN" which is truly, the PRIZE.

4. SIRITUAL CAPITALISM IS WRONG!!!

SRCM can stop asking for money in exchange for "favours" from the Master as is now being asked by your "management" team. The request to the abhyasis is for $1,000.00 US to buy Chari a (simple) gift for his 80th Birthday, in exchange for being the first to receive an (untold reward) from Chari. This is what we who left the other "corrupt" religions now call "spiritual capitalism" and is now "pooh-poohed" by all "intelligent" and thinking person as "corrupt" and just plain wrong.

The poor should not be "penalized" by someone who claims to represent God.

7. Obedience is for religions.

Logic is for spirituality. We don't need sheep, and zombies, and followers. We need thinkers, like yourself, and leaders, like yourself. Stop making sheep, zombies, and followers. Babuji and and Lalaji had that right. Why is
Chari so obsessed by his own glory, fame, and pride and ego??? Is that a Master of "Spirituality"?
In one his books, he states that Babuji was a Master of Spirituality and that he (Chari) was a Master of "humanity". How can one create "spiritual" people (not followers) if one is not a Master of "spirituality"....He is causing more harm than good, hurting the families of the "naive" followers who want and desire the ONE, not Chari!....Their lives are in your hands, SRCM ...Let our people GO!!

I could go on but you must know by now that I see SRCM as a REGRESSIVE religion of "OLD FARTS" but this time east INDIAN old farts as opposed to ITALIAN (popes, cardinals, bishops, etc..) old farts.

THE PATH TO THE ONE is there for all to see and follow (as if we can follow any other path). One does not need a guide to find the SUN, RAIN, WIND, etc...The ONE is everywhere!! IT IS SCALAR, not VECTORED!!

THERE IS NOT MORE SPIRITUALITY IN INDIA THAN IN NORTH AMERICA.

We just have to wake up and smell the roses, in our own "back yards", or lose this gift also to the SAINTLY (self nominated and appointed) GATHERERS OF HEARTS!! The hearts of the naive, gullible, and the malcontents of our population.

If you think that the North American RELIGIOUS (Christian) way is not GODLY or corrupt (as Chari teaches) , you will be sorely disappointed at the "east INDIAN" way, where Life does not have the same value as in our Christian (love or tolerate the enemy) culture.

They, as other STATE/RELIGION structures, are also invaders and conquerors ... and SRCM (Chari) has the support of the nationalists, and the Chambers of Commerce of INDIA, in their "worldly and materialist" endeavours shrouded by a veil (flag) of "spirituality"

INDIA the INVINCIBLE is a program at the SHRI Lalaji Memorial (OMEGA) School. (Why OMEGA? IS it the END?) Why is India "invincible" and not EARTH?

Do more (some) research and you will start to see more clearly. It's all out there.


4d-don

Anonymous said...

Hi 4d- don,

About a year or two ago, I sent a letter to Chari requesting an explanation on the connection between the Radha Soami movement and the origins of Sahaj Marg, specifically Lalaji's connection to it.

I never received a reply. Yet, to this day, I believe that a connection may exist, given the references to the Shabd or Sound Current in Lalaji's writings.

See letter below; all comments are welcome! I no longer practice in either system.

NB, USA

As I mentioned to you in a letter several years ago, I was involved with Radha Soami Satsang Beas for many years prior to my introduction to Sahaj Marg. Radha Soami is part of the Sant Tradition of Northern India (Punjab) that expounds the practice of Surat Shabda Yoga or Yoga of the Sound Current. It is also called Sant Mat and followers are known as Satsangis.

Interestingly, while in Hayward, I came across a book entitled The Complete Works of Ram Chandra (Lalaji Maharaj). What I discovered was his reference to the spiritual path as Sant Mat, with numerous associations to the practice of Surat Shabda Yoga.

For example, Book V in the Complete Works is titled The Philosophy of Santmat. In it, Lalaji makes clear reference to Surat Shabda Yoga, quite similar to what is described in the Radha Soami movement today. Numerous references are also made to the Sound Current (shabda) itself.

Lalaji writes on page 329 and 330, “To hear such sounds (Soundless sound) according to the surat (soul) is called Surat Shabda Yoga. This practice is considered to be the best and supreme.”…”Its practice helps one to ascend the heights of the various points of meditation, and move on towards the ultimate goal. Nothing else is required except this.”

I find this quite interesting given that in Sahaj Marg today, to the best of my knowledge, minimal importance is given to seeing the inner light or hearing the Shabda. It is my understanding that via transmission (pranahuti), an abhyasi can spiritually evolve in the absence of so-called inner experiences, visions, and so forth.

I have an acquaintance in Sahaj Marg, who is also a past member of RS Satsang Beas. We have discussed this topic and come to the following possible conclusions:

1) Lalaji was familiar with and may have initiated people into Shabda Yoga but ultimately modernized the teachings to reflect the spiritual needs of the times. This happened through Babuji several years later.

2) Lalaji would examine people’s inner condition and make recommendations for Shabda Yoga accordingly, thus sending them to shabda gurus as needed.

3) Lalaji taught a method of Shabda Yoga quite unique from what is taught by countless Shabda gurus today.

Any insights or clarity you may have on the above would be greatly appreciated!

Michael said...

Anonymous,

I spent some time with Ram Singh Ranaji, who I believe is Lalaji's last living disciple. He turned 100 years old this year. He considered himself part of the Sant Mat movement. He also considered himself a Hindu Sufi, not unlike Lalaji.

You will find that all these lineages are loosely connected. I've spent considerable time looking for links between all the spiritual or mystical sects in religions and found several common links.

The Chaldean Magi were a mystical sect in the old testement. Daniel in the old testement was a Magi. There's references to the three Magi visiting Jesus at birth.

The Historical links to the Magi go back even further in history. A mystical thread links the Magi, Ancient Greek philosphy, Jewish mysticism (Kabbala), Christian Mysticism (gnosticism), the Druids, and yes, Islamic mysticism (Sufism). I've yet to prove Lalaji's Master's statement that Sufism has connections to the Vedic traditions, but I'm certain the connection is there. Historically, these mystics adopted the religion of their culture, retaining their spiritual traditions. Many Magi converted to Christianity in Middle East and Europe.

I believe strongly that Lalaji, by remaining a Hindu rather than converting to Islam after taking up training with an Islamic Sufi, was a clearly indicating that this mystical, spiritual thread goes beyond all religions, yet links them all.

As you explore this you will find links to far more than Sant Mat, but you have indeed uncovered something. Why SRCM dis-regards this and insists it is an exclusive reformed verison of Raja Yoga, I do not know - well, actually, I have a thesis about that in this Blog.

The historical evidence is easily discovered with some research.

These days I find exploring these connections far more insightful than spending time understanding why SRCM has distanced itself from this incredible legacy.

Please feel free to join us in this research. Its far more productive task than fussing over the choices made by the leadership of SRCM.


Michael

dw\Ars said...

dear michael, i think your approach to this subject is full of integrity and thoughtfulness.

as many i also don't have the patience to read your whole blog, but i remember having read parts of it some time ago.

the inner circle phenomenon is very present in sahaj marg, and i have wondered about it a lot. in the most lenient version, my analysis leads me to suspect extreme self-delusion on the part of chari and his inner circle.

in a more cynical version, it is all about recognition, power, money even.

in both cases however, i deem it unlikely that you will reach many abhyasis, let alone the inner circle itself.

i come to the conclusion that sahaj marg is gladly used by abhyasis and inner circle alike to escape reality. we all like fairy tales / (hollywood) bliss / anything to give us a special meaning and purpose in life. i think most abhyasis are rather deceived then lose this fairytale atmosphere.

for people already somewhat critical or doubting, this blog and others like it are however immensely valuable. please keep up the good work. - frank waaldijk, former abhyasi and srcm zonal-in-charge netherlands.

Anonymous said...

Thanks Michael, for your clear response.

You know, the SRCM is not the only yoga/meditation organization buying up properties and erecting new centers.

The Radha Soami organization based in Beas, India, under the directions of Gurinder Singh, has expanded big time since the time of Charan Singh. They now have several large centers in Europe, the States, and Canada.

What's this thing about growth anyway?

These groups are appearing more like multi-million dollar corporations than spiritual organizations.

What's happen to simple spirituality without all pomp and glitz?

Thanks again,

NB USA

Shashwat said...

HS,

You have made a small reference to my voice and I am obliged to reply to your genuine POV.

Being spiritual does not mean being stupid. Does it ?

You have made certain observations regarding faith, kindly allow me to present another view here, a mother tells a child to call a certain man as father, and the child blindly obeys that, he has no other choice, kindly understand, the child does not understand what exactly mother means when she asks him to call a man his father... the child become aware of what is father much later in his life (defiantly not six yrs). So telling a child who is the father itself provides some element of doubt, truth does not need any argument to be sure, at the same time, truth cannot be defeated in any argument as well.

Whatever is there as truth must be obvious, any manipulation makes it untrue.

Can get to gather’s (like chari's birthday bash) become spiritual act ? this is simply manifestation of one's ego, simple questions like why do we refer God as "HIM" chari reply's God is "male". Its time to take a break and get inside, a person who does not even understand simple facts like human psychology cannot claim to be divine.

Stop thinking and obeying, answer is obvious, just that you need to become what you are and not a zombie. Once you know your true self all obedience will vanish in thin air.

Unfortunately I am down with some health issue’s (chest infection) will not be too frequent on net, so have will reply in due course of time !!

Anonymous said...

Dear Michael,
I only want to add that I appreciated your efforts and especially your attitude very much.

I only can express my serious hope that you will find a way to settle the issue.

Michael said...

Hello Anonymous,

Thanks for your kind words and encouragement. I will say, that the only issue that needed to be resolved was for truth to be more readily avaiable. We have succeeded in providing more than enough resources for existing and prospective SRCM disciples to research the roots of the organization and use their own God given discrimination to come to their own conclusions.

Personally, I have moved on as I have little more to contribute other than to maintain this blog. My path has evolved in very different direction, and does not require that I change SRCM or resolve things so that I can return.

I suspect however that there are some within SRCM who do have matters to resolve with me. If they choose not to, that lays on their hearts not mine, as I have settled my affairs with a truthful testimony and moved on.

Thanks for your well wishes. I also wish the best to you as well.

Michael

Anonymous said...

I was involved with Sahaj Marg for about 5 years but always on the periphery of activities.

Due to distance, I seldom attended Satsang or received sittings. Chari was not too encouraging about this.

The issue was not about attending satsang but the distance required to travel to it. Plus, it felt odd that one had to travel to "receive spirituality". I still don't quite get it.

All in all, I like both the meditation practice and the evening cleaning. The cleaning seems like a good way to brush off the stresses of the day.

Now, regarding the "prayer". Don't like it one bit!!

IMO, by constantly telling ourselves that we are "slaves of wishes" and spirituality is a "goal", we ultimately create a barrier between us and God or Spirit or whatever name you wish to attach to the ultimate mystery. In other words, we sabotage our inherent spiritual nature by creating this scenario in our own minds.

I much prefer the prayer recited at Unity Church at the close of Sunday service. It reads:

The light of God surrounds us,
The love of God enfolds us,
The power of God protects us,
The presence of God watches over us,
Wherever we are, God is,
and all is well!!

Note that it is all in present tense.

Bob

Anonymous said...

Hi Bob...

Thanks for your comment. I could not agree with you more.

Just to add and not to disagree with you, the prayer, apparently received from Vivekananda by Babuji, is contrary to statements by Ramakrishna, Vivekananda's Master, in which he calls repeating of what we doesn't want (in prayers) "silly". It is also exactly the opposite of the "positive imaging" that today, even atheist sports jocks and other competitive and/or healing disciplines are using. To image the negative is to repeat it and not "spiritual". Note the peace song: "I ain't going to study war not more"

I have gone to not using the word "God" but as Vivekananda and others to use the numerical and more "scientific" term "ONE" to express the UNITY of the MYSTERY. One does not have "gender" or any other attributes but is ALL. ONE IS ALL.

The biblical static "Word" or the Gothic "God", used for the Creator is a demotion imho, and the latter is taken from the Gothic empire who attacked and sacked Rome in the 4th century. We got the Gothic arches in architecture and the word "GOTH" or "God" from these Germanic tribes (Goth and Visigoth ie. Children of Goth).

The structure of the word itself does not reflect the "infinite" as it is constructed of one (open sound) vowel, enclosed by two "closed sounds" consonants. So it sort of forms and enclosure for the ULTIMATE or the INFINITE. It is what early tribal religions foolishly attempted to do with the symbols of the circle inside the triangle and the Trinity. This is so unlike the "OOHM" which is really supposed to be all the vowel sounds ended by closing the mouth with a "M", or the "Yahweh" of Judaism (all sounds, with no attributes) or the representation by John in John 1 of the the Greek concept of LOGOS ("Logic" as described by Sound using Words...Tranlated in the various Bibles to the static "Word" in English and "Verb" in French). The Romans used the word "Deus", translated to the French "Dieu". "God" is a Germanic (Gothic) word and not a true reflection of the MYSTERY...

I like your Unity Prayer. I would use the word "ONE" instead of "GOD" for the reasons stated above. I also like the PRESENT tense for the REALITY.

Time will soon take it's place as an "illusion" or a mere "measurement" of the MOTION, or the transformations or the Changes in the LIFE of which we are a part. If we, as electro-magnetic and plasmic consciousness, encased in a "carbon shell" (or going through a "carbon phase"..lol), do not die but Transform, then Time, for us who are then timeless in our "higher self", then this TIME is not a REALITY. MOTION is a reality and CHANGE is a REALITY. TIME is just a measurement of that Change.

Space has (at least) three dimensions that CHANGE or MOVE and all three of these dimensions (length, width, height) have MOTION or TIME inside of them. So, the 4th dimension is not called "TAPE measure", or "clock" or TIME, the other measuring stick of SPACE in MOTION.

It is an error of our modern science to make Time a "dimension" like "space". That is now being addressed and is now changing. Time is not the 4th dimension but SPACE has many other dimensions and Time (see String theory, M-theory, Euclidean Relativity etc..), is just as the meter stick (tape measure) and is simply a measurement of "change" or MOTION of (or "in") Space.

Thanks for your thought provoking and thoughtful comment...

PS. From the cousins of the Goth, the Vandals, we got "Vandalism". ;-))

Don

Anonymous said...

Hi Michael and all...

There are a few new blogs on SRCM and Sahaj Marg out there:

History of Shri Ram Chandra Mission (SRCM):
http://historyofsrcm.blogspot.com/

Lessons from Shri Ram Chandra Mission (SRCM):
http://lessonsfromsrcm.blogspot.com/

Shri Ram Chandra Mission (SRCM) and the UN:
http://srcmun.blogspot.com/

Michael:
Could you add these to your links?

Thanks...

There is also a discussion on Erich Schiffman's site called Moving
into Stillness in the section on "Classical Texts...Sutras, Gitas etc) in the sub-section called Guru Yoga: (this is the last discussion page and is on Sahaj Marg)

http://p092.ezboard.com/fmovinginto
stillnessfrm11.showMessageRange?
topicID=69.topic&start=601&stop=625

and there is a community at Shashwat's site calle Freedom From SRCM-Sahaj Marg on Orkut in Asia (membership):

http://www.orkut.com/Community.aspx?
cmm=24873318

Enjoy...

4d-don

4d-don said...

Hi all...

This is from a comment on Elodie's (French) blog "Pour Que Vive le Sahaj Marg" by Alexis Sept 2, 2007. Translated by 4d-Don, using Google Translate.

http://pourquevivelesahajmarg.blogspot.com/

Alexis Said:

The rumour has it…

Chari would come to Europe next October. The rumour runs, swells and is propagated. But it soon will fall like a soufflĂ©…

Do not dream, Chari will not come!
Why?

Because he is pragmatic and a calculator, his acts are never impulsive. After the effect of advertisement only intended to stimulate you, he ends up cancelling at the last minute, stating health reasons! The mechanics is well thought out…

Already in 2003, he explained to the Americans why he had preferred the Indians to them. Lack of numerical growth, lack of material manufacture. Still last May, he preferred financial Dubai and its attractions in the Occident:

From: Chari speech San Jose, 2003:

« In 1972 I travelled with Babuji to the US. After three weeks there were 76 abhyasis but until 1984 it was arround the same number. What does this show ? Nobody worked.» Discours au Danemark le 10/08/2000
« (…) I really didn't expect to come back to the USA again, because I was pretty depressed about the general situation. Not of the economy, not of the politics, not of the country, you know, but of the abhyasis of the Mission (…) It had become something of a routine, you know (…)

That was one reason why I wasn't travelling abroad for the last three years out of India (…) the people of India yet come to spirituality. So, like my old job in my company, where I was a marketing man - I had good markets, bad markets and markets which were okay (…) And the temptation was always to go to the good market first (…) marketing management dictates that you should give more time to those markets which are not so profitable or productive (…)

So I have been concentrating on India for the last three years, and I am very happy to say that, if you think in terms of statistics, probably we've had three hundred percent growth in the last three years in India. We've had so many new ashrams coming up, big ashrams coming up, housing projects coming up, abhyasis coming in droves, you know (…) And it is good (…)

I don't have a conscience at all - it's a question of work. I don't judge myself, I only do my work and leave the result to him.» - I only do My Work,

Chari speech at San Jose (CA, USA) le 10/08/2003

Speech by AJ Bhatter (Successor to Chari and Master in Waiting)

“I would be happy to say that he had the intention to travel to Europe and to the United States in April. But, perhaps he thinks that if he now went to Europe and to the United States, many among the abhyasis who were registered for Tiruppur, would not go to India. Then, he cancelled his visit. Therefore, I think that in a certain manner, we are not able to convince him that his arrival will not affect the event in India.

He is at this moment in Dubai (…) During, I would say, the 15 last years, work and time that he devoted to Europe should have produced many, many, many more abhyasis. But… it is strange, I would not say that his work was at fault… but that we did not show enough receptivity to be able to realize what should have been.”

Speech of Ajay KUMAR Bhatter in Montpellier 3/05/2007

Alexis said:

He will not come.

Let us be realistic, you (Europeans) are not gifted enough for spiritual marketing. Zero growth for the business, the coaching of your leaders did not yet bear its fruits and management feels it.

If you had really wanted to see him, you would have had to prove it. To attract numbers: to double, triple the manpower, to build cathedrals and no matter what he says … to fight to be near him.

But you are not productive enough, not enough profitable to interest him.
Chari will not come, he will not come any more.

Pragmatic, calculator, he was especially a fine strategist, a skilful tactician acting in his own interests.

He made use of you when he needed you. Rejected by the Indians in 1983, it is towards you the Occidentals that he turned. You gave him the means of building Babuji Memorial Ashram and of filling it with abhyasis. Thus, it is thanks to you that he could return to the natural course of things and return to his country in victory.

He will not come any more, it is finished!
Never forget that, he used you and now he throws you like vulgar kleenex, from now on useless.

Enjoy...

4d-don

4d-don said...

Hi Michael and all...

On my site at:

http://4d-don.blogspot.com/

At this site is a selection of quotes from "Autobiography of Ram Chandra" published by SRCM Shahjahanpur, with comments by Christian, that adds new light on the SRCM (Chennai), registered in California in 1997 schism and debate... who is following Babuji and who is following Chari and AJ Bhatter, his chosen (not democratically elected as per UN criteria) successor.

Interesting quotes such as:

p 35 (13.06.1945) Int. Lalaji
"The real way is the 'easy way' (Sahaj Marga). The nomenclature somehow does not appear quite good to pronouce."

Sahaj Marg was born one June 13, 1945, and it is “Lalaji” which chose the name of the baby. The translation in English is not “natural way”, but “easy way”.

The rest is "marketing"...
"Natural" sells better than "EASY"... And why would Lalaji call this path different from HIS OWN!!

p73 - 15th August 1929
"There, a great Muslim divine was present along with another Saint and a personage. I did not recognize that personage. The great Muslim divine asked that personage to inspect my backbone. So my shirt was removed and the inspection was made. He seemed to be pleased with me. He remarked that the condition was very good, and there was some hint regarding the emotion of love which I bore for my Guru. He directed me to request the Mahatmaji Maharaj to pay special attention and to give special instruction to my humble self. I intimated Revered Lalaji Saheb accordingly. He also asked me to keep him informed regarding my condition. What he meant at that time seemed to me as if my humble self had been ordered by him to look towards him also."

Remember, these are dreams, not visions. Sound like SPIRITUALITY?
NOT RAJA YOGA but SPRITULALISM...

see the rest...and more to come soon as "MORE QUOTES from...."..

Anonymous said...

Hi all...

Some more legal battles for SRCM. This time for defamation against a newpaper who covered an account of "sexual acivity" at the Ashrams of SRCM. The action is by abhyasis who feel "defamed" by the story.

This is the court docket of the Allahabad High Court:
http://www.allahabadhighcourt.in/ILR/
ilr-2004/Jan-Feb2004.pdf

Ah! the drama of SPirituality who targets the "mentally" ill and their doctors...Babuji warned Chari about that "SPECIFICALLY" but Chari wanted "NUMBERS" not "QUALITY". Was it to facilitate his "TAKE OVER"?... We can ask the question in a free society!! ...;-))

Maybe now the psy's at SRCM can write a thesis on how peaceful the patients have become with Sahaj Marg....

Don

Anonymous said...

HI Michael and all...

Some more information...

There is now a blog for the Autobiography of Ram Chandra written by SP Srivastava, to counter Chari's version Published by SRCM Shahjahanpur (Babuji's Family) with quotes and comments by Christian...

http://autobiographyoframchandra
.blogspot.com/

And Free thinker put this on his Orkut site: Freedom from SRCM-Sahaj Marg and on: TELL ME TRUTH INDIA at: (In the comments)

http://tmtindia.blogspot.com

Sexual Activity by Chari and Preceptors...

but because it is alleged and it is an "account" that was released to a Reporter/writer for a Daily Newspaper in India, it came to court because some abhyasis sued the Newspaper "THE PIONEER" for writing and publishing the article.

The interesting finding was not that the court ruled in favour of the Newspaper but that the judge, in his statement wrote of the Publisher, the Editor and the Reporter/writer:"they are highly skilled and associated with the newspaper industry which is known for its integrity and long-standing."

Now I guess the judge has a better perspective than I do. I READ of SOME journalists who have "gone out on a limb for the "little guy" or the country with some alleged "defamatory" "controversial information" such as the Washington Post, the Guardian, etc...).

In this case, The SRCM is not exactly the "little guy" but contrarily, the "BIG GUY" who is not suing, with some disciples (soldiers) Doctors worried about their "reputation" for being associated with a group that is alleged to be a "CULT" involved in criminality and sexual deviancy.

SRCM is the "BIG, NATIONALIST, CAPITALIST come RElIGIOUS, EMPIRIALIST machinery closely associated with "feudal power" (Lalaji) and Big Business' (CHARI et al) financial backing, versus the accusation of the a handfull of little women....

How can one decide who to believe? HMMMM! LET ME SEE! It's a "conspiracy", they claim?? HMMM! COULD IT BE SATAN? ;-))

Don't they call us, the "conspiracy theorists"? HOW DOES IT FEEL? ;-))

It's OUT THERE, I told you about it but I did not "give it to you"...If you want it, it's on ORKUT...It's like DOCTOR Kavorkian saying: the "pills (poison) are over there! TAke them if you want to.... I LOOKED...NOW I have to make a decision...and you don't yet! I opened Pandora's Box and I looked inside...NOW I am responsible for that...

I am telling you that I don't know, and that after reading, you won't know! But still, you will be responsible for the FREEDOM of Believing or not and for the RIGHT of not OBEYING and REAVEALING, and the DUTY of doing something or nothing...and YOU'LL HAVE TO WALK THAT LONESOME ROAD BY YOURSELF.

I would tell the Doctors to learn to laugh, much the same as the "POOR FOLK" have to do when the Charis et al, and the SRCM's of the World come and "divide" our family and society. Write a song, tell a joke, write a book, or a poem...Preach a sermon...PONTIFICATE...

Now my decision:
Do I tell you? YES, my job is a Revealer! an Infonaut! That is what I figure...and you don't have to make a decision yet...

Once you look, you still won't know but now, you'll have to make a decision. Do you tell anyone? For what reasons would you tell?

Education?
Information?
Entertainment? (comedy, song, poem, book, etc..)
Conspiracy? Power?
???
???

GOOD!!...NOW you are responsible!!

After the INFONAUTS, (the Reporters, the Recorders, the Rememberers, the list-makers, the REVEALERS,) come the ARCHANGELS!

The first victims: The HOLY INNOCENTS!! THE NAIVE!! THE GULLIBLE!! THOSE OF BLIND FAITH!! THEY WOULD RECEIVE THE MARK OF THE BEAST VOLUNTARILY! THEY SERVE IT VOLUNTARILY- WHAT THEY KNOW TO BE CORRUPT!!

IS that the source of the repeat of the ADAM AND EVE Story (myth) again? Well, let's see who SERVES the FAMILY AND WHO SERVES THE MASTER?

IF women don't do the "DIRTY WORK", Religions can't exist!! MEN WON'T! They will just "CONTROL IT"...

Some Indian Women are saying that about the MEN who serve the GURUs in INDIA and neglect their family and society. Good for the Women of INDIA...

NOW IF ONLY THE WOMEN OF THE REST OF THE WORLD WOULD NOT OBEY these old farts any more than they "OBEY" their HUSBANDS ...

YOU HAVE TO SERVE SOMEBODY! SERVE YOUR FAMILY!

Don...

Anonymous said...

4d - don:

What were your experiences in Sahaj Marg that encourage you to leave?

Just curious....

Bob

4d-don said...

Hi Bob...

Chari took over, I met him, meditated with him, looked in his eyes and that was it. The meditation with my PRECEPTOR (also named Don) was more "en-lightened" than with the MASTER. So the PERSON makes a difference. There goes the MYTH. IF the vessel is corrupt, what comes from the vessel is also corrupt. I saw the same thing that I was in before I left "catholicism", not because of Catholicism or Christ, but because of the PRIESTS (persons) around me: arrogance, the "enlightened" (sarcasm), a saleman using women to lure the children, and an evangelist. And with Catholicism, I saw nothing in the "teachings" attributed to Christ (he did not write), that was as blatantly "WRONG" as with Chari.

So I did not leave because of Babuji, although, he was not PERFECT, but because of CHARI, he is a nationalist and a "profiteer", and a "USER" or "manipulator" (what we call in the west, a "CON"...Charming, charismatic, but egotistical and materialist.

But mostly, in reading his material, and Babuji's material after Chari became involved, I started thinking that Babuji was becoming "sick" spiritually and was saying things that I had never read from the "little man". Things like him (the Master) being "god".
I started thinking like some other older abhyasis (Europe) who left around the same time, that the "con man" had overtaken the "philosopher" and was now in control. I was not willing to be volunarily conned again in the name of ONE, the UNITY and return to what I had left behind. So I left.

Later, I started reading the "abomination" that is Chari's Philosophy and mostly his ill- conceived "theology" and started warning others.

How about you?

don

Anonymous said...

Hi 4 Don:

Sorry it’s taken me a zillion years to answer your question!

Honestly, my story is not all that exciting.

I got interested in meditation back in college in the early 70s. At that time, I was an active member of the University Newmann Center (Catholic Community). However, during this period, there was no form of contemplative prayer or meditation available to the Catholic laity. As you may know, this changed with the Centering Prayer movement associated with Frs. Thomas Keating and Basil Pennington (Basil is no longer with us).

Consequently, my spiritual search went east. I was initiated into the Radha Soami Beas group in the late 70s. My teacher was Charan Singh, who passed away in 1990. He was the successor to Sardar Bahadar Jagat Singh, both teaching Surat Shabad Yoga.

I became disenchanted with the RS movement for various reasons in the 1990s and finally left around 1999. It was at that time that someone who I considered quite knowledgeable about the various systems of meditation introduced me to Sahaj Marg.

I got my initial sittings around 2000 and did the practice regularly for several years. However, and this is the big however; I never liked that idea of having to go through a preceptor to gain spiritual access to my higher Self. Also, it required a significant amount of travel time. The closest preceptor lived 60 minutes away. Regular sittings were impossible to coordinate and Sunday satsangs became a 4-hour affair including travel.

The real turnoff for me began when I saw Chari in California a few years ago. I remember an evening meeting where folks were going up to the microphone (in Chari’s presence) and giving their Sahaj Marg pep talk to everyone, you know, saying how great Sahaj Marg was and how it had changed their lives for the better. It reminded me of going to an Amway or MLM meeting.

On another day, Chari held an auction to raise money for the organization. The prize was a signed booked if I recall correctly. The whole thing struck me as rather weird.

Another turnoff was the peachiness of some members. Certain people kept laying a guilt trip on my wife and me about not attending satsang regularly. Honestly, I found the organization very “gooey” and wished that people would just mind their own business. We used to get the same guilt trip where we attended satsang. Plus, being the only Westerners at the satsang we attended, my wife and I never felt quite accepted as a whole. We always felt like outsiders. We both woke up one day and realized that we just didn’t enjoy the vibe at satsang and stopped going.

Then, there are the books. I find Chari’s attitude in various books toward Westerners, especially Americans, quiet condescending and judgmental. And, now we have Whispers from Eternity. If Chari is so connected to his Master, why does he need a medium to receive messages? The tone and style of the messages sound nothing like the writings of Babuji. Plus, the whole thing seems rigged to bolster Chari’s legitimacy as successor guru. I question the validly of the messages.

Nonetheless, I still meditate using the technique I learned in Sahaj Marg. I like the practice (minus the prayer, which I just don’t like).

Currently, my leanings are toward Unity Church and I still attend Catholic Mass occasionally.

Hope you’re well.

Bob

Anonymous said...

Hi Bob...

Nice of you to share your Sahaj Marg experience. I have met more "serious seekers" since this Sahaj Marg episode in my life than before, when as a Catholic, when I only met those who had "found". In one of my "therapeutic" songs called, "Two Divided", I express that:

TWO DIVIDED

By 4d-don
Key of G in 4/4 Time-Rocky Folk/Blues (Pentatonic scale)

We are standing two divided and there's only ONE above
We're a walking contradiction trying to find a little love
Ever standing at the threshold, trying to get inside the door
Never running for the dollar, still we're tired of being poor


Some are searching for the White Light, gotta get there while you can
Some are running from illusions, come and catch me if you can
Some are standing quite contented and they're drawn into the flame
Some are working for perfection, some just love to play the game

Some are searchers, some are finders, bend the knee and smell the rose
Some are standing on the side-lines, now and then I'm one of those
Some just ponder, over yonder, marching past the fools parade
Like a template for a crystal, Life's a moment ready-made

I guess that after having had the Message of LOVE from the Christians or really what was attributed to Jesus, the Christ's message, the Sahaj Marg thesis is really "flat" and Materialist ("accumulation" and "detachment" rather than "rejection " of the material of the Christian Saints (not the church). Jesus was at least the "POOR" or "one of us". He shunned the Material and the "Pyramidal" structures of the temples (Churches).

It is strange that his Message became part of the "biggest Pyramid" and the symbol of "religious corruption" in the West.
I wonder if the Eastern European and Russian Christian Churches have had as many historic "Scandals" (Crusades, persecution and slaughter of "minorities", sex, and political intrigues etc... and of course the Material Accumulation, in the name of "POVERTY" and/or "detachment".

Still the Message of LOVE of Neighbour and specially the LOVE of the Enemy is "society building" and has kept the Roman Catholic and the Christian churches going for centuries on that message alone, I believe. The Sahaj Marg "isolationism" and "navel gazing" to achieve the "GOAL", is counter to that, is narcissistic, self-serving, and is thus manipulative and controlling.

I wish you and yours a very Merry Christmas and and Happy and Spiritual New Year:

I offer the lyrics of my newest Christmas song (as A Gift to you, Michael, and all on this blog):
(in memory of my Catholic experience, I put in some Latin..lol)


The Bells of Christmas Day


I hear the bells of Christmas day
Although there are no steeples around
And all of Nature bids me stay
To live in harmony and join in the sound.

Ding, Dong, Ding, Dong
In excelsis ex Uno, pluria
(in the highest, from ONE, many)
Ding Dong, Ding, Dong
In excelsis e pluribus Unum
(in the highest from many, ONE)

I pray the Star lights Bethleem
I pray the city lights don't burn you down
I pray the world one day unites
To live in harmony and join in the sound

I pray for peace in New Salem (Jeru-salem)
I pray the gods of war don't burn it down
I pray in Light we all abound
To live in harmony and join in the sound

Don...

Anonymous said...

Hello Michael

I just happened to bump into your blog. Was so much intrigued that I read almost all of your writeup including the comments of others.Now i feel compelled to write to you.
Let me sincerely appreciate you on your honest & sincere effort of clearing up your conscience.
You seem to be good soul. May God bless you.

Harvinder

Anonymous said...

Dear All,

My brother just forwarded me the link to your site. I happened to read for some of time to get of gist of the content.

Since you seem to have appreciated that the mission is not now what is started of as.

"This organization seemed not to be about money at all. Several key factors attracted me.

1. Prosthelytizing was not encouraged

2. Training was offered for free

3. There was no focus on buildings or property

4. The practice did not involve cultural or religious indoctrination

5. Focus on experience as opposed to study of the practice."

As mentioned by you above, it's so sad that the mission represents none of those ideals now. I just pray and hope that Sahaj Marg will soon retain it's pristine glory and all of us derive spiritual benefit from it.

Somewhere in your blog you have mentioned that when Chariji was declared successor president - some characteristics which seem to have antogonised him in India and Europe -such as arrogant personality and the aggresive approach to run a spiritual organisation etc (I am not sure if this is the exact meaning you wanted to convey) - are the ones which Americans find normal and that this behaviour was considered as Status Quo. Twenty years from then you seem to be agreeing the decadence of the values in this great spiritual path and the reason for which is quite obvious.

However some comments specifically about central region - I do not agree. I don't know anything about this myself. But the regions 'Centre' or 'Bhuma' is similar in my comprehension to the physicists theory of Big Bang - Bhuma is the space (if we can call it) from which the universe has evolved and it makes good sense to call this as God - from which all of us came. I completely agree with you however that this has not been presented in the way it should have been and has been completely misused by people. This is precisely the reason why levels of progress are hardly known to Abyasi as the moment we tend to concentrate on them and that we have 'achieved' something it only further increased the 'ego'.

Regards, KC

Michael said...

KC,

Thanks so much for taking the time to read and comment.

As for the acceptance of Chari as President, westerners seemed far more willing to accept this than Indians due to his very cosmopolitan, westernized personality.

The Central Region, is defined by Ram Chandra of Shahjahanpur as a new level of achievement that was only possible due to the innovations of his Master. It is claimed that even Kabir had not achieved this. I agree with you that it is completely irrelevant. The obsession of "ones achievements" creates a spiritual commodity that is traded in exchange for unquestioned loyalty to the Master. I personally find it very counter productive.

I don't spend too much time any more worrying about this. Fortunately, after 20 years of de-programming, I've learned that spirituality is about "being" and is not a race to achieve a prize that can be measured and compared to the achievements of others.

Best Regards,

Michael

Anonymous said...

Dear Michael,

I read your comments about the central region. While I agree with most of what you said, I seemed to have not conveyed my point completely/adequately.

I can't imagine Babuji not mentioning about efficacy of Raj Yoga and scope of the central region. He should have and thankfully he did. It's like saying that Einstein should not have discovered Theory of Relativity because it led to atom bombs.

It's how we use it that matters and these 'relatively negative' consequences resulted because of materialisation of spiritualism that seem to have happened recently (past 20 years) unlike the 40 odd years of previous existence of Sahaj Marg. The goal should on God realisation and NOT on achieving 'central region' - should both may essentially mean the same in the end the perspective is so different and therefore the consequences of approaching with either of these perspectives.

In any case from a long term perspective (~500 or 1000 years) of Sahaj Marg, it is better for the SRCM to have made these mistakes (irrespective of 'who' is responsible for it) early in its development so that we all can learn from it and hopefully never repeat this again.

Regards, KC

Anonymous said...

Hi KC...

If I may add a few points of clarification to your comment:

1. Babuji placed 16 rings of of evolution in his "metaphysics" of the UNIVERSE and the Central region of that model was the centre of the 16 rings...I agree with Michael that it was claimed by Babuji that this was a "new" achievement by his SAHAJ MARG and due to the efforts of LALAJI...THAT is hard to find in Lalaji's words or writings... I would even say that it does not exist in Lalaji's writings...I could be proven wrong as new writings emerge...

2. In the Central Region, Babuji describes some "EGG things" or some shapes that were like eggs (oval)...There is nothing in the BIG BANG that confirms that.
Let us not forget that the BIG BANG is just a theory that does not explain the "dark energy" or the acceleration of speed the galaxies are moving away from one another. The speed of expansion of SPACE itself accelerating would seem to indicate that energy is entering the UNIVERSE at an increasing rate. The Big Bang does not explain that.

3. Babuji theology and metaphysics is a long way from the "spiritualism" of Chari where in "Whispers from the Brighter World", messages are received from the Brighter WORLD by an anonymous French MEDIUM. The senders according to Chari include his mother, and other elevated souls... this is far from Babuji who always said that the other World was not BRIGHTER but like the morning at dawn before the rising sun...

HOW can they (Babuji, Lalaji, Chari ) be so different and still be RIGHT? I think they are just making it up as they go along...but that is just my opinion...I am not a SAINT don't sell the PATH TO THE ONE (what some call GOD) and will never claim to... I think the the JOURNEY IS THE THING...not the GOAL or the CONQUEST..

4d-don

Anonymous said...

After the interaction with this blog, I have been reading Babuji's autobiography over the past few days.

A lot of points mentioned by authors in this blog ('rightly') expressing their anguish over the present state of affairs in SRCM seem to be similar to those existing when the autobiography was written. I do hope that this would change for the better in future as it did happen then.

I do not have the abridged version of the autobiography; I have the 'only' detailed (unabridged), original version - part II of the autobiography comes in 3 volumes each of them being a separate book - and that definitely answers a lot of questions. e.g., need for a living master (is it a matter of convenience or an absolute necessity?), reasons for not publishing autobiography when Babuji was alive etc.

I think we should also record the date when entries are made in this blog (for posterity).

Regards, KC
24-Apr-2008

Anonymous said...

Hi KC..Looking forward to further comments on the Autobiography of Ram Chandra...If you have the time to send a "commentary" for inclusion in our blogs as another perspective that is away from the "party line"I agree with your dating for posterity...

Michael could add that to the messages in Blogger if he wants to ...

Until then, I will add the date with my name at the end of the comment...4d-don

April 29, 2008 10:44 AM

Anonymous said...

Hi all...

Now that the "court case" is finished and SRCM is waiting for the next "case", Chari has been SERVED!!


Chari Charged with "criminal offense" (says Navneet)

This is from Tell Me Truth India site (comment #291) (Navneet is Babuji's (the Founder of SRCM) grandson and President of SRCM (Shahjahanpur)

Dear Cyril

At last Chari, Uma Shankar Bajpai and 6 others have been charge sheeted for the criminal offence of tresspassing into the Ashram on 2nd June 2006. Their non-bailable warrants are being issued for the same from the lower court three days back.


Navneet

Anonymous said...

Hi all...

This was left on my blog and parallels what happened in Catholicism in my country as the "scandals" were exposed and those who trusted the "DEVIANT PRIESTS", and were the "best catholics" started to either leave the church, such as myself, and/or "commit suicide" as they could not stand the SHAME. These were the ones who had sacrificed their family for the MISSION...

If anyone knows this family, OFFER LOVE, COMPASSION, and CARING, (not preaching and lectures) even though they are "EMOTIONS" and not necessarily "SPIRITUAL", to your BROTHERS AND SISTERS in their hour of need...and believe them, the VICTIMS.


Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Michael's View on the Controversies...Mar 9, 2007":


I would like to bring forth a tragic incident, about an ardous abhyasi, named Dhamodar. I think who sacrifised every thing for the Mission. But sadly he commited suicide by hanging himself.
The marriage was set by PR. What might have gone through old parents and all. We can see PR next day as usual and whistling and listening to music. No change, poor parents, they might have such expectations from the young child.

4d-don

Anonymous said...

dearmicheal

i am an old abyasi, i want to find out from u that i heard that rojagopalachari seduced several girls and married them to another abyasis.
is it true? pl.clear my doubt.

Michael said...

Anonymous,

I've heard these rumors myself but honestly have no direct knowledge of these accusations. I personally see no reason to spread these sort of rumors without facts and testimony to back them up.

Michael

Anonymous said...

Taken from Elodie' s blog (France): The Desperate Abhyasi or Pour que Vive le Sahaj Marg

Enemies of Spirituality?

Here is another excerpt from "He, the Hookah and I" (The Master and the abhyasi 11) which concerns me, and which affects us directly:

"The common people (mortals) , they are people who come, judge, and judge again and consider starting blogs on the computer, which is now a curse because everybody has a computer. And these blogs can influence the mind of an abhyasi more than the truth of the practice (…) Why do we ignore the proof that we produce in ourselves in terms of a certain level of relationship with the Guru, and prefer the claims coming from disgruntled people who have left the Mission, who dropped out, who have renounced, who are the enemies of spirituality. "


Elodie Said:

Am I an "enemy of spirituality"?

The title of this blog - it must be remembered is what? -- "Long live the Sahaj Marg… get rid of the excesses of the Mission".

I have abandoned nothing, I never relinquished. I have not abandoned the practice and I have not renounced spirituality. I took my distances from the Mission, I returned to the fundamentals of Sahaj Marg. I have renounced idolatry, I have chosen the path of spirituality.

Enemy of spirituality?

No, a thousand times no. I am opposed to what was holding back the development of spirituality within the Mission.

I have renounced idolatry.
I abandoned the Mission.
I chose spirituality.


I encourage all do as I have done. Take your distance from your idol. So then, you'll have taken the first step towards a true spirituality.

Elodie


4d-don's Comments:


Such lack of love and compassion is shown by the MASTER of HUMANITY that is Chari...He does not only attack other religions at their schools, (see Value Based Spiritual Education (VBSE)), (or read the whole VBSE curriculum or lesson 10 (the attacks on religion here) he now attacks his own "BROTHERS AND SISTERS" branding them as the "ENEMIES OF SPIRITUALITY" in a Book published by his MISSION... That can be considered "HATE LITERATURE" and/or "intellectual terrorism" and should be banned in most democratic countries... Make your governments aware of this MATERIAL in the name of SPIRITUALITY or in the name of REPRESENTING the ONE (what SRCM (Chennai) teach children and call GOD, the male).

NOW we, the INFONAUTS are the ENEMY because we use "HIS WORDS" and the writings of HIS MISSION to expose his, and his Mission's, deviancy. Shoot the messenger, don't fix the problem is his solution. The material excess of the MISSION is visible to all, just like the excesses of " corrupt religions" (Chari's words). Now we have the SPIRITUAL deviancy of Sahaj Marg, attacking the MEMBERS who leave the Mission because of the "drifting" from the FOUNDER's teachings by Chari, as "enemies", rather than blessing them and wishing them well... by that criteria, we are all LOFTIER or more Saintly than CHARI, the Businessman come "self appointed" GURU who is now in Court with the Family of the FOUNDER, Babuji. Some more enemies no doubt?

What's next? In the Italian "mafia" the "don" (Godfather) does not order people "dealt with", he simply says that he has a "problem", and all the "foot-soldiers", try to please him by getting rid of his PROBLEM... What' s next for SRCM? A "fatois" (death sentence) system as in ISLAM? Would that then be called a "MODIFIED" fatois system? SRCM claims that it is a "modified" Raja Yoga, the eithtfold path, starting at rung SEVEN!!!

Amazing and some believe that!!

PS... Chari has un-wittingly written his "obituary"...

HERE LIES CHARI, The enemy of Spirituality!

His "brothers and sisters" who left him and his Mission, and who wanted to reveal to all the reason why they left, he called them: the "enemies of Sprituality") ... (Ref. "He, the Hookah and I")

By the laws of "reflection", that brand will not stick to most of us, infonauts, who don't have much "material" attached to us including a large "FOOTPRINT" or a "religious" legacy or ego to defend. Chari on the other hand, has to defend his POSITION and hence his "EGO" by attacking other "RELIGIONS" and now, his "brothers and sisters" who leave him and his EGO for a journey into a TRUER SPIRITUALITY, they claim. Shame!

It could be the weight of his own words, that makes his journey "venus-bound", according to his "tale" about Babuji saying to him (Chari) that he will go to Venus after his death to do the Mission's work... ;-))

4d-don

Anonymous said...

I'm relatively new to Sahaj Marg. Been around spiritual practices for decades (Yep, I'm one of those middle-aged women someone wrote is so susceptible to manipulation - but it's just not true. Being middle-aged doesn't mean addled.).

It seems that every single path I've walked has been filled with scandal of some kind or other. I'm no "cultie" (or groupie, for that matter). And scandal isn't limited to the off-the-beaten-path paths. It goes for the Church too, and probably all organized religions. In the Vatican, some churches, synagogues, and mosques, opulence abounds, sometimes, to a nauseating degree.

I don't like groups for the most part, but do like meditating with others once in awhile. I analyze and research spiritual approaches. I have to say that most of the literature in Sahaj Marg is available as free PDFs, which I have read extensively. This, even though I've read on one of these blogs that the literature is so expensive now.

I didn't have to pay a penny to learn the techniques. That was one of the biggest positive signs to me. I Didn't even have to see a preceptor. In fact, every single detail was online on their site, explained thoroughly in dozens of articles.

Of all the practices (and I've been through many), this is the simplest (not easy, necessarily)and least intrusive I've come across. I like the idea of seeing light in my heart. I like the idea of shaking off the garbage. The prayer matches what I have learned in Vedanta -- that my incessant desires keep me from getting closer to God or a Higher Power, whatever you choose to call that idea or being. Oh, and from my reading they make it clear that "Master" in the prayer is God, not a human

There are direct quotes I've read on some of these sites that I realized are a matter of interpretation. The same comment can be viewed differently by different people. And the one about the prayer is an example. Someone else may view this in an entirely different way.

For whatever reason, what I've read in the literature is in contrast to a lot of what I've read on these sites. I've read and like that Sahaj Marg doesn't say I need to renounce everything and leave the world behind, but instead advises that I need to be spiritual in my daily life and see to my responsibilities. And I really like the preceptor I've seen, who is smart, funny, and has really grilled Chari with a lot of questions (we've discussed it).

I've heard about the in-fighting, but after all, any organization is made up of people, and you cannot have an organization of any kind without them. I met a preceptor who made me uncomfortable, so I didn't go back to that person.

I stumbled onto Sahaj Marg, no one coerced me. After all these paths where the "Masters" are dead, I was really excited at the idea of a living teacher. I enjoyed a lot of what Chari has written and listened to the audio of his description of the practice. Now, After reading these blogs, I did read his awful, inexcusable comments about gays. However, he was clear in the transcript that this was his opinion, not that of Sahaj Marg. He is a person, with flaws. It is disturbing, and yes, will affect my view of him, which makes me sad because I quite like his intellect and sense of humor.

But the practices are not punishing and don't involve difficult asanas and kriyas. They aren't asking me for money and say that those who give all their worldly possessions to a group, if I can paraphrase, are mooches on society.

So, OK, I will admit to briefly having had the romantic idea of being in the "inner circle." Unquestionably, you all have disabused me of THAT desire (one less thing to shake off tonight.).

So after reading all of this, I think for me, the best thing is not to get too involved in the political, inner workings of the organization and to just keep it simple, the way I believe it was originally intended. Thanks for all of your insights.

Michael said...

Dear Anonymous,

Thanks for your post. It sounds like you're keeping your wits about you. It is important to use the heart and mind to develop the ability to discriminate between right and wrong and not rely on others to do this for you, or you fall into the realm of dogma and religion.

Try getting some of the older pre-Chari books. See if you can still get a copy of Lalaji's "Truth Eternal".

Also, "Cutting Through Spiritual Materialism" by the buddist monk Trunkpa wouldn't be a bad thing to read as well.

All the best to you my friend.

Michael

Anonymous said...

a minor query to the middle aged women...

how does your husband takes your involvement with another preceptor for your spiritual progress. At least one thing is for sure... you could not find same spiritual ecstasy in your own family thats why you are looking for same spiritual pleasure in another preceptor... via Sahaj Marg. MIRITE ?

Anonymous said...

Hi Anonymous...

Other things that may affect your view of Chari...this is being taught to children (girls)...who will also not be MASTERs as they are not "destructive" enough, according to Chari at his speech at Satkohl airport...

When questionned, he said in an e-mail to me, that "it was on a COSMIC" scale that he was refering to. So MASTERs then destroy on a COSMIC scale? Which part of the COSMOS please? Are there other life forms there? IS THIS ALL AN APOCALYPTIC FANTASY to scare the kids and the women?

God is MALE, NATURE IS FEMALE..
http://www.sahajmarg.org/youth/story92.html

Oh well! Who cares eh? As long as you're saved!!

Don't bother us with TRUTH, we're SPIRITUAL and only care about our SELVES.

What about this Quote?

From: Heart of the Lion (Book by Chari)...Page 14


....So I repeat, the Guru is the only friend. In fact, I have said this so often, that in the Sufi philosophy, the Guru is called Friend. "The Friend is coming". Because he is the only fellow who can give his life for you. He is the only fellow, therefore, to whom you must hand over totally, a Power of Attorney....."Do with me as you think I deserve to be done with. Kick me when I have to be kicked. Beat me when I have to be beaten. Curse me when I have to be cursed. But make of me what you think I should be eventually, because only you can do it."

So once more I say this in all humility....if you must have a Master, find a fellow who is capable of, you know, throwing you around, beating you up, cutting you to pieces. Remember Parushurama's father and the stern test that young boy had to make for obedience...."Kill your Mother"...."Yes"...

He pulled out the sword and cut off her head. He said, "I am pleased with you my son. Ask for anything you want." He said, "I want my mother alive." And He said, "So be it." and she got up and walked off. The Guru is the Master, when you say of destiny, it means life and death. He must be the Master of your life as he must be the Master of your death.


Would you kill your mother to OBEY?

What about this one?

Freedom....(responsibility)
From Book " Salient Features of Sahaj Marg" Series 2 (page 26)....


In examining this idea of freedom, we have been led to the conclusion that what we have thought of as freedom is nothing but a state of surrender to the Master's will. We have not lost freedom in the sense that we have been deprived of it. We have voluntarily, whole-heartedly and devotedly surrendered it to the Master of our Soul. To those who are fortunate enough to arrive at this stage, the Master is no longer a guide for spirituality alone. He has now become the Master of one's life in all it's aspects of existence. He becomes the father, the mother, the son, the teacher, the doctor, in fact, there is no role that He does not play in the abhyasi's life. He has taken total charge of the abhyasi. So we see that only our surrendering to Him can bring about a state where He can take total charge of us!

Analysing this further we find, surprisingly, that a great and unimaginable freedom is now confered on the abhyasi. It is the freedom from freedom itself. It is the freedom of invulnerability. We may even say that it is the freedom of invincibility. We are no longer answerable for our actions. We merely obey. The person who issues the orders, the Master, assumes complete responsibility for anything we do. We are no longer vulnerable to the world. Therefore, a great calm, a great freedom comes to us. Out of our apparent loss of previous freedom- largely illusory as we have seen- we now receive a divine gift, the true freedom of a spiritual state, a real freedom which some saints have called "The Great Liberation".


Do you think that the ONE created you to be "OBEDIENT" to another MAN, so as to be SAVED? NOW that you can OBEY and KILL without FEELING, are you truly FREE?

Sahaj Marg is RELIGION not SPIRITUALITY!!

"SURRENDER" and becoming "LIVING DEAD" IS THE PATH OF THE COWARD and the TRAITOR! TRAITOR TO ONE'S culture and family.

4d-Don

Anonymous said...

4 Don:

Whatever happened to the idea of developing inner guidance and discrimination through spiritual practice?

Seems to me that a true spiritual path would enable a person to tune into their own innate guidance as opposed to relying on some other human being for direction.

What Chari is describing in your quotes are clones and mindless robots. It reminds me of some science fiction flick where someone is zoned out, while carrying out orders on behalf of the bad guys. There is no awareness or feelings present at all.

If that is what spirituality is all about, I think I'll pass.

Plus, the other thing, how many abiyasis really know the guru versus their own personal image of the guru?

IMO, there is not much difference between loving the guru and loving Elvis.

Or to say it another way - I know my next door neighbor much more than I'll ever know Chari or any guru for that matter! And, the same can be said about Jesus or Buddha.

Bob

Anonymous said...

Hi Bob...

Gee...another THINKER... Nice...

I think this "internet" will finally expose the flaws in the logic of these salesmen of rewards "on the other side".

You got that right about knowing the MASTER as opposed to the MASTER. I find it surprising that I have read more about Sahaj Marg than those who "FOLLOW". Are they then following BLINDLY? I think so. They just want to be part of a GANG...any gang!

Why, some (fans) even claim to be healed when Oprah enters the room...and we all have seen the televangelist, Peter Poppoff with his Miracle Water and Miracle Manna, and Divine Transfers of Money to the "sheep's" bank account, from heaven, while healing mostly the poor and "black" community.

Thanks for you input and clear thinking. If we can educate the next generation about RELIGIONS (specially the the religions of the "three yahoos..or Yahwehs" (Judaism, Islam and Christianity) we might stop the NEXT WARS and maybe even begin seriously addressing the environmental, and other societal problems such as poverty, homelessness, etc... That will demand CLEAR AND INDEPENDENT thinking from us as LEADERS...not as followers and sheep.

It's time for the next step in our DEMOCRACY. It's time (if it's not too late) for us to VOTE on ISSUES in a DIRECT DEMOCRACY...and even the SHEEP and the WOLVES can participate!! The Preys and the Predators! The Masters and the Serfs!

That's the next REVOLUTION! empower the MASSES even before they are "smart enough" to decide freely. They will learn as they use the POWER!! They will learn like all of us, even the MASTERS...

4d-don...