Tuesday, July 04, 2006

OCTOBER 16, 2006 FINAL POST - LESSONS IN POWER PART 8: ANALYSIS

I have made my final entry in the LESSONS IN POWER section of this blog. I consider my work done here, but will continue to respond to comments and questions. Those wishing to send me any personal messages may do so by commenting here with their contact information. I will not publish private correspondences.

I hope that this has been helpful to those who have left the SRCM or are questioning their involvement. At the very least, it is my sincere wish that by providing my truthful thoughts and experiences, here, that an honest discussion can occur that strengthen's everyone's confidence in whatever spiritual direction they choose.

Michael


UPDATE FEBRUARY 24, 2007
Recent postings of letters and accusations against Chari's SRCM from the Shahjahanpur based SRCM introduced by Navneet, Babuji’s grandson, ( www.srcmshahajahanpur.org.in) has caused may questions. I'm going to attempt to address this as best I can as I am being asked to do so by several who comment regularly on my Blog. What is written below is based on facts as best I can recollect them, along with my own personal analysis and assessments of characters and underlying intentions of each character involved.
Lawsuits, Letters and Quotes from Dead People

SRCM has many divisions and factions, the two main warring factions I will refer to in this article as the Chari Clan, and the Umesh Clan. I use these terms because their behavior can easily be likened to Clan warfare.
Both clans are guilty of using the same techniques to discredit the other Clan and bolster their own credibility. Chari claims that the Umesh clan poisoned him with arsenic. Umesh produces a letter written by Babuji in Paris in 1982 claiming that Chari was poisoning Him. Both sides file legal actions against the other and produce signed, typed letters from Babuji making bold and contradictory claims. Both sides claim credibility from communications with the Dead. As an example, the Umesh Clan website quotes Lalaji from the grave claiming Babuji as Master until the end of earth ( http://www.srcmshahjahanpur.org.in/facts.html ). A quote that clearly was not made while Lalaji was alive! Chari recently had a French medium allegedly communicate with Babuji from the dead and publishes it as a book. Naturally all comments from Babuji are complementary of Chari.

This behavior has it’s source from Babuji himself. He meets Lalaji 3 times in person, then years after his death, claims in a dream to be told by Lalaji that he is a special personality and his sole successor. Babuji allegedly writes volumes upon volumes of autobiographical material claiming to have meetings with Jesus Christ, Buddha, Vivenkenanda, all transmitting to him and praising his spiritual prowess.

Why would anyone spiritually driven even bother to do these things? What is the natural result of creating an exclusive successor lineage, and an organization of passive, and subservient disciples who unquestioningly follow the orders of a single Master or his Organization?

With this smokescreen being laid out by both sides I constantly hear the following questions in various blog commentary:

1. Was Babuji Delusional?
2. Which side is telling the truth?
3. Who should one believe?
4. Are the letters authentic?

Like any good political or religious organization, these are the questions that those in power want the population to ask. It distracts from the real questions and causes one to question their opposition. I suggest we ask the following questions.


1. Why would a spiritually adept individual with humanity’s benefit in mind create such mythology around them selves?
2. If spiritual up liftment of Humanity is the goal, why would nature restrict this through only one living human being?
3. Why does a spiritual organization like the SRCM have so many factions that are fighting for control?
4. What do they desire to control that is so important that they resort to this kind of behavior?
5. If all parties agree that Babuji’s letters can be forged, why give credence to any of these documents.
6. Why is control over the Mission’s name, emblem and property so important to the warring Clans?

I don't have answers to any of these questions. I only suggest we ask the right questions and not get lost in the smokescreen. I will attempt to re-iterate what I know from my blog and add any further details I can below:


The Guru Persona
Having been a preceptor once, I directly experienced the cultural influence such a position has on people. It is the easiest thing to act holy and command the attention and reverence of others in this position. Its source does not come from the Preceptor, nor does it come from the Master, it comes from the combined attention of those who believe that a preceptor/master is a source of spiritual power. It only takes one or two non-believers to destroy the communal mindset. Gurus avoid these situations like the plague to maintain their image. Chari and Babuji were no exception to this, choosing to stay close to their inner circle where they could easily maintain their persona. I’m certain that Umesh used similar techniques. Put any of them in a Texas pool hall and watch their persona and influence diminish to nothing.
Babuji's Letters
I
watched Babuji sign letters written by his close associates and handed to him for signing. I’ve also seen Babuji extremely sick and completely at the mercy of those around him. I suspect that the original letter that Chari produced was authentic ( http://www.srcmshahjahanpur.org.in/facts-fraud_nomination.html ), however, it did not claim that Chari was a spiritual Master. Simply that he would be president and representative. This however is only my opinion knowing the characters involved. Whether Chari and others exploited Babuji's condition to forge letters doesn’t really matter one bit as, clearly both Clans accuse the other of creating forgeries, then both sides are admitting that forging Babuji's letters was easily done. That is a fact we can all acknowledge since all parties involved have admitted to this fact.

Character Assessments
Chari - Chari in his disciple days made himself as visibly loyal to Babuji as possible. He inserted himself in visible ways during Babuji's trips to the West, always attending to him, always advising him, always near him. His outward appearance was very materialistic and imposing. He smoked Dunhill cigarettes, dressed extremely well, and was visibly putting him self in the public eye of westerners as a likely successor. I can only imagine how Indians resented this.
Umesh - My experience with Umesh was from knowing him and his wife for about 2 weeks while he visited the US on his "unofficial" visit to the US. Un-official because Babuji would not make it "official". This, in and of itself, is telling. He travelled with two of the more senior Preceptors in the Mission who opposed Chari. Umesh occasionally attended sittings and showed little interest in being actively involved in the activities of the organization. I definitely felt that these two Preceptors (Ragavendra Rao and Ramacandra Reddy) had brought him along to give them some sort of additional credibility and start socializing him as a possible figure head. It was obvious to everyone that Babuji would die in a few years and this appeared to me to be a direct counter to Chari's interaction with the west.
Overall Analysis is that both the Chari and Umesh clans were blatantly trying to woo the West for support. Chari's more westernized personality was far more effective than what was presented by his opposition. The other senior preceptors did not have the political skills nor the financial where with all to travel extensively with Babuji on his international trips. Umesh appeared to be their only figurehead given that, as his son, he had as much close access to Babuji as Chari. The validity of either seems immaterial to me as in both instances,it was a fight for control and power, having nothing to do with the spiritual upliftment of humanity and far more to do with gaining the favor of wealthy westerners.

Paris 1982
I attended the Paris 1982 gathering. My observation is that, at that time there were those who supported Chari and those who opposed him. Andre Poray was on the side that opposed Chari. There was no doubt in my mind that this gathering was an attempt to divert western attention away from Chari. Chari was explicitly not invited to the gathering, however, somehow, he managed to be there. I was told that this was because Babuji demanded Chari’s presence there. This may or may not be true, as Chari may simply have shown up on his own accord. Chari was in a room next to Babuji's, which adds credence to the theory that Babuji wanted him there. Members of Chari’s opposition attempted to attend to Babuji keeping Chari as far away as possible. I spent many an hour in Chari's room and witnessed Babuji's attendees sheepishly requesting Chari’s presence in Babujis room due to Babuji’s request.
I also witnessed that Babuji was sick and delirious. Attendees would drive him to the meditation hall, and carry him into the hall, this effort requiring two large men to carry out. He would black out and fall on his knees if he tried to walk. It was as if they were carrying a corpse into the hall for all to see. Any letter written by Babuji at this time in this state, is questionable, especially such a long letter as the one on the Umesh Clan website. In my opinion, any official documents signed by Babuji during this time frame has little credibility.

Chari on the other hand was also aggressively keeping himself in the public eye. He played the role of the man in exile, holding court in his small room, inviting friendly disciples to mediate with him. It was a very effective bit of drama as he knew that people like myself would see his opposition attempt to attend to Babuji in a western country, while Babuji had come accustomed to Chari serving this role. Babuji's constant calls for Chari were embarrassing I'm sure to Chari’s opposition.

As for the references to the doctor attending to Babuji. I spoke with the Doctor at length just after Babuji left. He was a German doctor who practiced both homeopathic and conventional, allopathic medicine. No mention of treachery. His story was that Babuji was far too sick to travel to the west and should never had made the trip. He felt that the trip to Paris would likely be the death of Babuji. Given that Babuji never fully recovered from this trip, his words have the most credibility of all other claims.



Fact and Fiction
Ignoring letters, legal pursuits, accusations, etc, we can at least determine the following as facts:

1. All factions agree that Babuji's letters could easily be forged

2. All factions were clearly posturing for taking over the Mission during Babuji's last days
3. Significant importance was put on developing the Mission in the West and attracting wealthy westerners
4. All factions strove to be visibly close to Babuji during his western trips in his final years

Hypothesis
Babuji created an organization that was based on power and exclusivity. In his last years he was also an extremely sick man who clearly could be manipulated by those around him as evidenced by accusations from both sides claiming the other side exploited this situation. The push for western validation was about power and money. Chari spent significant time and effort gaining a foot hold before Babuji's death, then exploited it by traveling to Europe and the US after Babuji's death, surrounding himself with wealthy disciples from the west and creating a massive library of books from his talks and speeches. He overpowered the opposition who reacted as best they could, by discrediting Chari through whatever means necessary. Both sides exploited the corrupt Indian legal system to gain control of the name and emblem.
There are plenty of examples of either side filing legal action against the other. One attempt in April of 2000, where Chari’s Clan filed a complaint against the Umesh Clan with ICANN, the internet domain registrar, protesting the use of sahajmarg.org as a domain name. The complaint was denied, however, this effort clearly demonstrates significant value being placed on the intellectual property of the Mission. (See http://www.arb-forum.com/domains/decisions/94237.htm for the decision). Need I remind everyone that the Legal profession both in the US and India, is not one of high integrity when it comes to these types of legal actions. Giving any credibility to the lawyers who represent these claims misses the point. These legal claims are attacks on the credibility of the opposition and simply the exploitation of the legal system for the purpose of gaining an upper hand in controling the Mission.

What is happening here is a power grab, and, "he who has the most disciples wins" appears to be the rule of the game. I stand by my analysis in the "Lessons In Power" article in my Blog (www.innercircleofsrcm.blogspot.com). The real power comes from the disciples, not from the Master. It is easy to sit in a chair in front of thousands of doting disciples and appear to be holy. The spiritual environment is created by the people surrounding the Master, not by the Master himself. Any truly spiritual teacher will not impose anything of him self on the student, but will push the student to find it in his or her self. This is completely lacking in the SRCM system from the beginning, and neither of the warring factions have attempted to introduce anything but centralized, power based spiritual principles to their disciples. The Sufi tradition treated the teacher as a friend, house guest or grandfather. It was about human interaction and learning by example. It was about actions in the real world, not un-substantiated communications with the Brighter World. This Sufi aspect has been completely eliminated from SRCM, leaving only a misguided concept that spirituality must come from something outside oneself, and one must find the one and only true spiritual guide in the entire world to achieve it.

I know I am repeating myself as I've already stated this in my Blog, but, the most dangerous aspect of SRCM is the creation of myths. Quoting Babuji or Lalaji from the dead, claims of inter-communication with Jesus ( who's legacy is slammed constantly by Chari and his inner circle), Buddha, etc. are easily created, and unfortunately easily believed by non-thinking, obedient members of a cult. All factions are using this technique to give themselves credibility. How hard would it be to create such myths and get obedient, unquestioning cult members to believe them? Anyone can produce a letter signed by Babuji, and invent a quote from Lalaji or Babuji from the brigher world, or claim intercommunication with Krishna or Jesus. Sadly, we have seen that the cult mentality will have throngs of individuals believing these claims without question.The actions of all those involved in all factions of this organization is embarrassingly materialistic, power seeking, and not the behavior of anyone even remotely interested in spirituality and God. There is little point in weeding through these claims to determine the truth. There’s plenty of deception, lies, and selfishness from both Clans. Its the equivalent of choosing which street gang has the least negative impact on the neighborhood, or whether the Hitler or Mussolini was the better man. There is a battle for control of the minds and souls of an extremely wealthy and subservient group of individuals. Beyond that, the true facts are vague and irrelevant. One only needs ignore the words, documents, legal filings and quotes from dead people, and examine the actions of these individuals to see the truth –and the truth will indeed set you free.

Michael





128 comments:

Christian said...

Hi Michael,

Interesting phenomenon, the one you tell about the influence of belief in the predictions of the master, in your life (you got a child after quiting the influence of Chari).

This is a point each abhyasi should consider very seriously. We are all creators of our lives, as well as of our spiritual lives.

Michael said...

Christian,

Yes, and in my case, involvement with SRCM directly hindered my development as a human being, created imbalance in my life and influenced the poor life decisions I made in my young adult life.

Many have said that Sahaj Marg is a simple and harmless system and people are free to leave if they choose. It is hard to even know to leave when one is blinded by unquestioning obedience to a Master and his Mission. Chari may take away ones preceptor position, but does not ask sincere disciples to leave for their own good. I give Ranaji Saheb credit at least for sending me on my way.

To this day I am grateful that I left when I did. I've gone through hell for the choices I made while under the influence of SRCM, but now those influences have almost completely been cleansed and my life is finding balance.

We are our own creators of our lives indeed! I also see that a path is laid out for each us, we can either follow it or avoid it. My path did not require SRCM or Sahaj Marg beyond possibly the very first experiences. By not leaving early on, I was prevented from doing what I needed to do on this earth, though I'm happy to say, it has all turned out ok and I have no bitterness for the years wasted. I only hope my story can help those in similar situations within SRCM and other cults like it.

Michael

Christian said...

Hi Michael,

I hope you are well.

Please, go visit my new blog spidjou, spiritual journal, and tell me what you think about Narayana verbal faux pas.

I have simply stopped arguing.

Christian

Michael said...

Christian,

I've scanned through it a couple days ago. I'll take a closer look and comment shortly.

Thanks again for your support.

Michael

Christian said...

Courage

Christian said...

Hi Michael,

only a powerful master could have given you such a lesson in power.
It is sad that we did not received a lesson of love, that only a spiritual master could have given.

One woman gave it to me, certainly without knowing it. She was probably the true incarnation of Christ's teachings. She made my heart immediately full of love, my eyes full of loving tears, and drove me straight to god in no time from what she was.

Sister Teresa (http://www.vatican.va/news_services/liturgy/saints/ns_lit_doc_20031019_madre-teresa_fr.html) said: “By my blod, I am Albanian. By ma nationality, indian. By my faith, I am a religious nun. Concerning my call, I belong to the world. Concerning my heart, I fully belong to the heart of Jesus.”

you are absolutely correct in your 7 part conclusion. I find your analysis and comprehension very deep and subtle, and I am in total harmony with it.

I just miss there the "mystical" or "love" aspect that Sister Teresa puts in the last sentence quoted above.

This is the base of all you say.

Christian

Christian said...

I did not saw that the discussion was continuing in another part of your blog.

Alexis, in the Sahaj Marg, the sexual energy is manipulated for the sake of spirituality.
It helps "spiritual development", and therefore has to be controled, rectified, etc. It is asked to the abhyasis not to fuck, and I suppose according to what I have felt that there is some manipulation of the force that is at the basis of sexuality, through transmission. This you must get confirmation from Michael.

Concerning the translations, this is a heavy load of work you plan to put on me. I have already much to do for my work, I would really apreciate if you could find someone else. Let's discuss that later.

Christian

Christian said...

Michael,

there is one more thing that we did not analyse deeply.

It seems that Babuji has intoxicated all his disciples with ideas of power, most of the time by implicit means.

I have gathered few points that we could explore:
central region, transmission, yatra, god as the ultimate, goal to achieve, master, special personality, mission, hierarchy. I certainly fail to mention all of them.

Fo instance, look at how the followers of Narayana called their institute: IMPERIENCE, a word created by KC Varadachari, instead of INPERIENCE (please read all my explanations concerning the impact of that word in the mind of the reader, on my blog spidjou).

Christian

Anonymous said...

Hi Michael,

I left a long comment previously when I first found your blog (the former abshayhi in Japan). Thought you'd might be interested in reading a relevant article on a woman who died while training to become a master for the Dahn yoga cult in the US.

http://villagevoice.com/news/0628,belgiorno,73801,2.html

If this link doesn't work, please visit villagevoice.com.

I found the some similarities described in emotional manipulation to those in my brief experience with Sahaj Marg slightly chilling yet unsurprised by them.

Sincerely,
DW from NYC

Christian said...

Hi Michael,

Hi all of you,

I have decided to stop the discussions on my blogs poxysrcm and srcmverolee.

The blogs are maintained in a read only mode.

I have redirected people for the discussions towards this blog for english speakers, and towards Elodie's blog for french speakers.

I give some explanations about my decidion on spidjou.

I stay there to make interventions when needed.

Christian

Christian said...

Hi all,

I have decided to open my blogs in the discussion mode again, after the distorting activities that are occurring on wikipedia.

Here is the message I adressed there to Clark.

"Hi Clark,

I have seen how involved you are in the affairs of your master, and can understand why it is so. It is obvious that, though you claim working in reestablishing the truth about SRCM and Sahaj Marg, you are endoctrinated in this system and just trying to advertise it through the wikipedia window.

I consider this as a dangerous option, and I really want people to be informed about the dark side of the system, that you are not presenting here.Actually, you are even trying to mask it by controlling information - people can just have a look at your publication activities to understand what I am talking about.

Therefore, I have decided to make a brief intervention in your work here because it seems to be needed.

Wikipedia is not a place for debates, it is an encyclopedia.

It is not a window for a sect, or one more tool for its propaganda activities.

The free discussions, which are not controlled by the sect or its members, and which cannot be falsified as people whish when published, are occuring on blogs that Don recently advertised here, so that people can read them and participate to the debate - something you never did.Because the problem is complex, it needs a lot of space that wikipedia does not offer, as you have recently recalled - taking this argument to make a real cleanup.

This space is available in the blogs. Therefore, if you are after working on objectivation, you will advertise the blogs here in a visible way, instead of trying to mask it or erase the links.

Of course, you say that these links are already on the first page, but they are not that visible. I want them here at the top of the page, clearly visible. It is not the advertising of an institution, it is an important information about where people can find another taste and enter the debate if they are not ok.

I must warn that if the links I put now are erased again (you are not to decide here because you have the same status as I have), I will request for an arbitration by wikipedia. I must add that I put a visible copy on the french and english blogs of the current message, so that people may know what is happening on wikipedia. I will expose you.

Here is Don's message which was erased by CP-Sakha just after its publication

"So as not to go off on tangents about the value, right or wrong of Sahaj Marg, those who want to discuss the wider aspects of Sahaj Marg can do so at the many blogs on the Web. These are but a few:

http://innercircleofsrcm.blogspot.com/ Inner Circle of SRCM
http://pourquevivelesahajmarg.blogspot.com/ The Desperate abhyasi web-site- Fr & Eng
http://membres.lycos.fr/mielk/english.html Mielk - A French Analysis- Fr. & Eng
http://srcmverolee.blogspot.com/ Le Shri Ram Chandra Mission verolee-French
http://poxysrcm.blogspot.com/ Poxy SRCM
Let's keep this discussion on the "encyclopedic" value of the information presented rather than making judgement on the value, spiritual or otherwise. Sahaj Marg and its proponents make certain claims and there are others that make different claims. We can accomodate all or most if we try. - - - Don..."

Christian"

RKPILANI said...

I have been doing meditation since I was 9 year old. I always wondered about the experience of merging with GOD. Therefore I tried variuos other techniques. I was in Shaj Marg also for several years with chari group for about a year and then moved to UMESh's group. Meditation in chari group was as usual but in sittings given by Umesh and his son, the experience was altogether diffrent. I could always feel flow of very powerful energy which was diffrent than rekie energy. I wonder till now why it is so. I do not participate in sahaj marg meditations as I do not like their manipulative behaviour.

Christian said...

Hi Rkpilani,

when you say you don't participate in sahaj marg meditations, you mean SRCM?

the flow of energy is of course different according to the spiritual level of the teacher.

this is what they deny at the SRCM, the dogma being that master is doing everything in place of the prefect, or that the prefect is equivalent to the master.

everybody knows through experience that it is not the case.

4d-Don said...

Hi RK Pilani

Nice hearing from you!

To have meditated for so long and since you were so young, you must be quite sensitive to the "experiences" that one gets from different, groups, individuals, Masters or preceptors or priests (as Chari has called the preceptors). In the sci-fi jargon, you would have more "betazoid" qualities than many who are new to "meditation" and/or the "inner journey. ;-))

According to you, even in the same system where the "energy" is supposedly coming from the "divine" or from the Master (divine), through the Master (human and elevated, or apparently representing the Divine), through the preceptors (human but not necessarily elevated) into the abhyasis, the energy level is different from Umesh's group, and his sons to Chari's group. Does this imply that Umesh's group are not chanelling the Energy through the Master, being Chari? Are they chanelling the Divine energy through Babuji's energy. What about Lalaji?
Is anyone still chanelling the Divine energy through Lalaji in Sahaj Marg at all? Does one have to seek Lalaji's energy in the Yogabhyas and that Sufi Lineage?

If what you say is so, and I believe you, then the preceptors and the "secondaries" such as "Umesh" are not in "perfect accord" with the Master, Chari? Is that correct?
According to you, is the energy that you receive coming from The Divine? Can you tell? Is it coming from Lalaji, Babuji or Chari, or Umesh or the Preceptor? Have you checked or felt anything along that line? Have you noticed any increase in the qualities of "love, compassion, caring, charity etc..." which many claim are truly "spiritual qualities", away from the self-centered caring for the self (detached from the family, friends etc..) in the sensationalism of the experiences of navel gazing or 'self absorption". (absorption in the "self" not the "neigbour" or the "divine").

If you sit and meditate in front of me, for example, you will get an experience, I will guarantee it. It will be Psycho-electro-dynamic. What some call "two on a heart" and anyone can do it. Hypnotists and Mesmerists, and anyone into animal magnetism can see the different influences on people have when the energy from one person is channelled or directed into a "receiver". If the receiver is trusting, the experinece is more intense. If the receiver is "loving" the energy is even more intense. That is the mechanism whereby we chose our friends, but it is "sub-conscious" and some call "chemical". We attribute it to all kinds of mechanisms even to mythical "cupids". If the receiver has pushed out or "cleansed" or "washed" (as in brain washing) out all the objects of love and affection or attachments such as family, friends, culture, country, morality, ethics and any other energy demands on any system from his/her life, then the energy the person uses to get and give to these "attachments" are then funnelled into the "sender", (the preceptor) and thus it is compounded. But it is the energy of the Preceptor that is effecting the heart of the receiver "electro magneltically" because thought waves are electro magnetic. It is not the elusive "Divine" and the receivers do not become more "loving, compassionate, caring, moral, ethical, etc...Which would be qualities one would expect from the "Divine". The receiver simply takes in the energy and the qualities of the sender who is the closest to him or her, the preceptor.

There should be some studies done on this "two on a heart" which is just a "parlor trick" that is now called "spirituality", but is really just "sensationalism" or more accurately "spiritual masturbation". In the physical, masturbation does not satisby the emotional need for Love and "closeness" and as such is "addictive". Love is the missing factor. The same in Intellectual Masturbation that fantasy writers such as Robert Jordan has used to write series that never end or reach "closure"...and then the "Harlequin Romance series that so many "addictive" personalities get caught by. ....The "targets" have to keep buying the next book in the series so as to get the "end" of the story or closure which never comes.

Now we have "spiritual Masturbation" where the serf in Sahaj Marg, the Macdonald of Spirituality, is tricked into a parlor game "experience" intensified by getting the serf to "cleanse" him/herself of all attachements (family, friends etc...) and is given a little jolt of real person energy, so an electromagnetic "focus" by the preceptor in the form of a "transmission" and the "addict" colors in the details with aspects of his own life. That game was usually played just before the game of "I can make you say Yes or No!!!" Very easy to do also...!

What you bring up is very important and maybe we should see if Christian knows of any scientific information or research out there on this aspect of Sahaj Marg.

This was not Lalaji's method, who used various techniques depending on the "adept". So it was "personalized". It became "one recipe for all" or "mass marketing" with Babuji. Chari inherited it and perverted it so that it became a sort of 'spiritualism" with mediums and seances in the form of "personal sittings" and "counselling" by the preceptors...I bet they're are women out there trying to get "Messages" from Babuji so as to become "pleasing" to Chari....and sometimes the seances end with the selling of products (books, vitamins, info on other 'seminars" or other "tricks such as "psycho-genealogy", palmistry etc...and other products that some preceptors sell in their "other" practices.

I would appreciate a more in-depth "expose" of your experience with both the groups you mentionned, addressing my questions above.
Are we witnessing another 'schism" in the Mission with the Umesh Group?

According to conversations I had with Michael, he was not aware of any elevated status that Umesh possessed when he was in the Mission. So his "energy" or his 'enlightenment must be new!! He must be like a "spiritual" virgin. That could explain his "energy" quality.

Safely tucked inside the ONE God where we live, I await your reply...

4d-Don...

RKPILANI said...

Hi 4d-Don,
I will try to answer your queries honestly.
I did not mean that energy level is different i.e. one is superior than the other. What I meant was that type of energy is diffrent, its feel and effect is intense. First time when I participated in group meditation where sitting was being given by Umesh, I felt usual calm which one gets in group meditation. It was in forenoon. I usually take a nap of 10 minutes after lunch and am never able to sleep during day time even if I try. But that day I slept for 2 hours and when I got up, I felt unusaul calm with almost missing thoughts. This I related to sitting given by Umesh. In later sittings I could feel presense of something which was flowing like breeze in AC room, which was pleasent and seemed to be quite powerful. I did not fit into your definition of divine in the sense that it did not arouse feeling of love etc. It created sense of deep calmness and sort of loss of memory(no thoughts type of feeling).

It was not coming from any known source i.e. babuji, Umesh etc. It was just flowing like breeze.

Umesh group considered babuji as master not chariji. I also, in altered state, felt that Umesh was the spritual representative of babuji and not chari. I personally do not belive in master system and channelisation, though I was part of Sahaj Marg (SRCM) and many people told me that I am strong medium.

I have read your discussion on the blog and I know that Christian told Umesh did not posses any divinity. To me also Umesh was very ordinary person. But he somehow knew something to make that energy flow which he taught to his son.

The SRCM meditation/sittings never created qualities of love, compassion, caring, charity etc. But whenever I experienced deep meditation by traditional methods such as Yog Nidra, awareness while entering into sleep, I felt these qualities temporarily for a fortnight or month. These were temporary because I stopped practicing any kind of meditation after such experiences as I got scared that I am about to cross the boundry after which my existence(Ego?) will be threatened.

I fully agree with you that meditating in presence of other person deepens the effect of meditation.


RK Pilani

4d-Don said...

HI RK Pilani..

Thanks for the clarification. You and I are in agreement in our "sensations" from Sahaj Marg and "meditation" in general.

One thing you might not have read is that Chari seems to say in one of his speeches to the preceptors that:

"I am afraid that Sahaj Marg is suffering in this way because even when Christian people become abhyasis and preceptors, they somehow, somewhere along the way seem to lose this idea of love, charity, compassion, faith and become preceptors. So what Spirituality offers and can deliver, our priesthood, I would categorize you as, say temporarily as priesthood - they destroy."

This seems to say to me that the Preceptors, not Chari, are "destroying" the Love, compassion, charity, faith". I read that as the preceptors are "transmitting" their own "foibles, addictions, tendencies" into the abhyasis and not "Divine energy". Sahaj Marg does not transmit "Divine" energy also but simple the Master's energy according to the Master but I think that the only transmitting going on in Sahaj Marg is from the "preceptor" as the Master seems to be saying that the preceptors do not have a "Sahaj Marg culture", whatever that is...

Is that the way you see it??

Thank you for your reply...

Don

Christian said...

Hi RK Pilani,

you write:

"I have read your discussion on the blog and I know that Christian told Umesh did not posses any divinity."

I have not said this.

I do not know Umesh, so how could I make a judgement.

You describe the kind of experience I have with transmission, the need to go to sleep after receiving it.

Christian said...

I invite the reader to visit my blog spidjou under the date 24th of September 2006.

I have posted some ideas that came to me about this new business of trademarks and copyrights recently elaborated by the SRCM.

Christian said...

http://www.copyright.gov


There seems however to be another kind of limitation to the copyright, "fair use".

I copy-paste what I have found on the web site above about that fair use of a copyrighted work, and which I published on spidjou yesturday:

The fair use of a copyrighted work is "reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright."

That is what we have been doing on the blogs, a fair use of the copyrighted goods of the SRCM, for a purpose of "criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching", and even "research".

Here is what can be found about the criteria to determine a fair use:

"In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include —
(1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;
(2) the nature of the copyrighted work;
(3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and
(4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.
The fact that a work is unpublished shall not itself bar a finding of fair use if such finding is made upon consideration of all the above factors."

Surely, the fourth point could be a problem.
However, because everybody will agree that spirituality can't be a business, there is no such things as a "potential market" in that specific case.

Christian said...

Hi RK Pilani,

I have heard that Umesh was going to publish the real complete works of his father.

I would be very pleased to read it.

Do you know if there is a way to get it?

Thanks a lot - Christian

4d-Don said...

Hi all...

Attention:

The following material could be dangerous to the "feeble minded" and lead them to "paranoia".

Here! I put this on the French blog of Elodie and I will place it here also. I will "crucify" myself for the sake of "Freedom of Speech". Let them (SRCM) sue me if they wish, these "cons" with their "fear mongering" and religious "terror tactics".

Taken from Constant Remembrance, Sahaj Marg Education Series, p.147 -
(ir)Reverend Chariji

"For those who are well advanced and for those who are advancing rapidly, please remember that without Constant Remembrance your life is fraught with great risks, not because there are dangers outside, but the danger is here, you see, in the heart. It is better to be a non-spiritual materialist whose heart is full of rubbish, because he cannot take anymore. There is no vacuum in his heart; whereas for a spiritual advancing person, there is a potential risk in every exposure. Because if this vacuum connection can be broken even for a moment and disconnected and connected elsewhere –God help him!"

Taken from Constant Remembrance, Sahaj Marg Education Series, p.147 -Rev.Chariji

With my excuses to the "intelligent" and the "stable" persons out there and in gest!! Some people actually believe that "sh..". Seriously!!!

You gotta laugh cause it's not funny!!

4d-don

Christian said...

A good, absolutely well-chosen example of what I claim when I say that the teaching of Chari is not based on love but on fear, or when I say that he is a terrorist, or when I say that he is instilling terror in people's mind.

Terror is a very diffuse thing.

Sounds like a natural path to me, what he teaches.

You must become paranoid to such an extent that you will avoid life itself, otherwise... "a potential risk of exposure" ... "God help him".

He said it himself.

4d-Don said...

Hi all…

NEW RECRUITING TACTICS OF THE “EVANGELICAL” SAHAJ MARG.

If you Google search “Sahaj Marg blog” you will find at pages 4 to 20, these sites from Yahoo! Answers
In UK, Ireland, India, Singapore, and Canada. (see below for URL)

It seems that these “evangelists” are using "children games" again with this “proselytizing” tool.
How far from the “Sahaj Marg” of Babuji and Raja Yoga has the “all new SRCM” drifted in their need for “disciples” or “serfs” so as to grow the Mission. Lalaji and Babuji’s spirituality was for adults only!!!

Shame on you all….Grow up and leave the kids to their games sites. Is that the LIONS that Chari talks about? Adults using Children’s games to “evangelize”. Oh yes! You can earn points on "Yahoo! Answers"! To get to the Brighter World no doubt!! They will need some “students” for their “OMEGA” School. Is this their “recruiting drive”??

http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question
/index?qid=20061014034500AAjB6GJ

http://answers.yahoo.com/my/profile?
show=036f58adae89ecc403264e7711a714
ffaa

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/
index?qid=20060919044255AAEDCW9

http://in.answers.yahoo.com/question
/index?qid=20060911024857AAk8bcM

http://au.answers.yahoo.com/question
/index?qid=20061004231215AAwzEjZ

http://ca.answers.yahoo.com/question
/index?qid=20061004213450AAvCO9T

http://ca.answers.yahoo.com/question
/index?qid=20061005031720AANIyza

http://sg.answers.yahoo.com/question
/index?qid=20061011060807AAQzJ0T

http://sg.answers.yahoo.com/question
/index?qid=20061005031720AANIyza

http://in.answers.yahoo.com/question
/index?qid=20060920020825AAXHQkf

http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question
/index?qid=20061011034339AANPbGS


Heads up Parents. They may then offer “free tuition” for a select few “Judas Goats”, so as to pressure the other parents to follow suit, (priming the pump) just like the Catholics did for me, and others like me, with the abusive and now defunct "boarding (or residential) schools". They paid my way because I was “special”. In other words, a “subservient” and “obedient” target, or a “good kid”.

Well now my eyes are open…. Keep your eyes open too!! The "all-new" SRCM is a bunch of "Mass Marketeers".

Don..

4d-Don said...

Hi all

Just a bit of news. If you wonder what all the money you send to the SRCM and the SMSF goes to, then this could give you a peek and some insights into the "management" team from the perspective of others but me. I did not make these up. They came to me by concerned "insiders".
I just pass them on to you!! I am just the messenger!!

SMSF-USA RETREAT CENTER UPDATE

Report by brother S. Krishna Sai, Austin, Texas, USA

Rev. Master had approved the idea for a Sahaj Marg Spirituality Foundation Retreat Center for the Americas earlier this year, on the auspicious day of Janmashtami (Lord Krishna’s birthday), during the Inaugural CREST course earlier this year. It is with great joy and happiness we share that Rev.

Master has approved the purchase of a 28-acre ranch property in Austin, Texas. The future home of SMSF-Americas Retreat Center will be located about 15 miles south of Austin. It presently has a primary 3 bedroom home (Master’s Cottage) and a 1 bedroom guest home (Caretaker / Director’s Cottage) with a work room which may be converted into a meditation hall. It is a working ranch with a lot of usable flat land, a creek and livestock corral type fencing around the entire perimeter of the property and a secondary fence around the house. It is located in the hub of Yoga/spiritual activity in Central Texas.

Rev. Master gave us the following guidance on the purpose of a retreat center during his talk on 9th August 2006: “… souls yearning for rest from glamour of this world, from the insistence on money-making, from the demands of power structures – lay all that behind us, and go there and relax, bring our souls to pristine purity and meditate, introspect, do some writing if you wish to do so …”

Search for the "TRUTH" on Blog of Abhyasis

This appeared on a blog by an abhyasi and was soon removed. You can see why! The blog was a search for "the truth".

# posted by namrata @ 11:58 PM 0 comments
Sunday, April 16, 2006

Warm house of Poor

Today was Krishna Bhaiya's house warming. He built a new house in Bangalore, Sarjapur Rd. Its a huge house. Master conducted satsang. Yesterday I expected that Krishna will give an open invitation to Blore abyases for Satsang but, there was no announcement regarding the same after morning satsang. I felt a bit upset as I have seen that middle class ppl are now a days giving open invitation to all abhyases for marriage reception. Why not Krishna?? He is big guy? After all ppl cannot be so disturbing. I am sure everyone understands that they should not disturb master.

He must be having his reason? But today morning we came to know that its an open invitation to all blore abhyases to attaend the satsang. I was GLAD.
Some abhyases were telling that master went all the way to Nasik for house warming of a rich abhyasi who built a palace like house.

I dont have any issues with master going and inaugrating big houses. Those ppl must be close to him or he may be bound to oblige. Somewhere i feel there is a contradiction in what Sahaj marg is teaching and following. Master tells make a simple house & one house is enough. Then why abhyases are making 3 0r 4 houses?

I dont have credibility to tell master not to go for house warming of riches. But, I havnt seen or heard that he has gone to the house warming of poor too.
I feel there is a gap widening between poor & rich in abhyases. Many abhyases feel tat master gives attaention to only those who are rich. Physical nearness is only for rich...poor has to just stand in queue waiting forever.

love
namrata

# posted by namrata @ 11:24 PM 1 comments
Sunday, April 09, 2006

This was the last post on this blog...

# posted by namrata @ 2:14 AM 0 comments
Tuesday, April 18, 2006

Answer to :Warm house of poor

Hi,

In my last post i was upset as why sahaj marg phylosophy is not followed by master's own son. Well i got the answer, we should see only our master as example not even his son. Well his son may have built many houses but not master. So we should not get upset by somebody doing something which does not match the phylosophy of sahaj marg. Master is working every moment for upliftment of humanity. He has no other aim.
I just need to help him in this. This should be my role. Thas all, period!!!

# posted by namrata @ 11:58 PM 0 comments
Sunday, April 16, 2006

The truth should be supported by "spirituality" and is but this group is not a "spiritual" group.

When the truth is "snuffed out" like that, then you can ponder what will happen to your truth should you "cross" the "Mission".

Heads Up!!!

If it smells like a duck, and walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then it's probably a "duck".

This is from the MIELKE out of France

SRCM Ashram Maintenance

The maintenance du Babuji Memorial Ashram was taken over by Prakash Sandhya who uses young volunteers to carry out this task. Prakash Sandhya is the owner of See Change Consulting Pvt. Ltd. (www.seechangeworld.com), a consultation firm from Chennai. Il also directs other information such as Micronet Business Machines. But he has written two works called "You Too Can Sell" and "You Too Can Be Rich".

He works rerularly for Intel Asia, ICICI Bank and other large corporations…

Mr. Prakash is a contributor to the Sahaj Sandesh. His last contribution was about the OMEGA school.

Ah! the simple and "spiritual" life....Taking care of the poor, the sick, the disenfranchised and living in "simplicity", as per Sahaj Marg.

Don

4d-Don said...

Hi Michael and All...


Spiritual Capitalism at the SRCM and Sahaj Marg


With the Christian Reformation, the practice of offering "indulgences", a sort of "spiritual" credits or "blessings" to assure a "favour" from the "Divine ONE" in this life or in the "afterlife", was stopped and the "Protestant" movement with its "democratization" of the Christian Church structure blossomed and moved to the New World after taking root and gaining a foot-hold in Europe.

What is happening in Sahaj Marg is a loop-back to "Spiritual Capitalism", or to the days when "indulgences" could be granted by, or bought from, a "holy person" as if they (the so-called "holy person of position") had a special or prefered place in the ONE God's Creation. It would be the the equivalent of the sun shining more on those who gave money or gifts to the Church than on those who didn't, like the poor and the sick for instance.

Here is an e-mail that is circulation among the "abhyasis" asking for "$1,200.00 US for the brithday of the Master, Chari. The comments are from Christian, of the Spidi blog who was an abhyasi for 18 years and is now looking into the ISRC as a "spiritual" path. Christian is a PHD and research psychologist.

Here is the full post on the Desperate Abhyasi blog in Europe:

(I translated the comments from French)

Christian said...

Dear Sister / Brother:

“MASTER’S 81st BIRTHDAY GIFT”

We have to announce, with Rev. [revenue?] Master’s permission of course [I love this one] something [read well the intro, bacause we don't know more at the end] He [Capitalized, so "Idolatry"] is going to offer to us on His [idolatry] 81st birthday which falls on the 24th of July, 2007 [in case the next one falls on Jan 3, 2009].

A project is being developed and executed [developed, I understand- execute, I don't see- specially that when a project is executed, it is no longer a project] to give to all of us abhyasis [abhyasis alone? I suppose they mean all the adherents to SRCM tm, because everyone who practices a "spiritual" discipline is an abhyasi if we stick to the true meaning of the word] -

"Master's 81st Birthday Gift" [What is this??!!] which will be available to all who wish [to pay $1,200.00 US] it on His [idolatry] 81st birthday at Tiruppur, India [first information]. In case you think this is our gift to the Master, please disabuse [??] yourself of this thought, for it is His [idolatry] gift to us, which He [idolatry] assures us we can use again and again throughout our life [whoa! they hit a major blow this time, so what is it, then??!!]. For the moment, that is all we are permitted to say [Ah! Ah! Ah!] ,except that donors who donate USD 1,200.00 to the Sahaj Marg Spirituality Foundation will be the first recipients [AH! AH! AH! Admit it! They are arrogant. The intoxicate you by making you chew on anything while asking you for $1,200.00 US. But don't imagine that it's your gift to him, it's his gift to you! And you'll swallow that? If so, you are "dumber" that you think. You'll probably find yourself with a CD ROM or a "bobsit" that you'll have paid $1200.00 US].

Please complete [as if they were sure that you would make a donation] the attached SMSF (India) - Corpus Donation Form and include it with the donation remittance [so there] -

You may learn more about the Birthday Celebrations on the Mission’s web site

[I checked it out and there is nothing new to learn: I told you at the intro. It seems that Chari has seen 1000 moons and therefore now has supplementary powers. I wonder how many indivuduals have seen 1000 moons. and I hope that we won't have to donate $1,200.00US to all of them!

As they say:"the importance and significance of this most auspicious occasion cannot be over emphasized" - [Sure, there is nothing more and nothing less than the occasion to ask you if you are really sure that you gave everything you have]


Back to don..

You decide, do you want to give to that or to the "real poor" and the "real needy". Is this Religion or Spirituality?? It certainly is SPIRITUAL CAPITALISM where you buy favours (blessings or indulgences) with money!!

So now we have:

* God is Male
* Homosexuality is "un-natural"
* Women can't be Master because they
are not "destructive enough"
* They disrespect and insult other
religions (Catholics, Hidus)
* SRCM targets children (5-7)
* They proselytize to kids on Yahoo
Answers!
* They try to hide the controversial words of their Master (Chari)
* They divide families, societies and also inside their own group.

Do they represent the "TRUTH"? Is that SPIRITUALITY

4d-don

Ravi said...

Hi Everyone associated with SRCM
Pranams,

What is your opinion on illegal capture of Ashram at Shahjahanpur by Chari group during March - April 2006. Being an Abhyasi I sincerely condemn it.

I am an Abhyasi from a group who do not believe in The Living Master or simply do not consider Chari as Master. As there was no such concept when Babuji was there. Rather, he stressed on strong living media, i.e. a strong preceptor with strong will power.

For us only Babuji Maharaj is eternal master. Divine Master in the real sense never dies nor he requires physical body, hence, no question of living master.

The Chari group people illegally captured the Ashram. They forcefully quit the people in the Ashram who are not associate with Chari. There were such capturing occasions earlier also in some other places like Vijayawada, Raichoor etc.
Where is spirituality in that group? What for they are doing such things. Do they think being very rich group any thing can be done? I have seen people are getting attracted to the Buildings / Posh Ashrams etc.

What is your opinion on this?

Once again
Pranam
Ravi

Ravi said...

Further to my previous comment. I would like to add that. We are not against Chariji.

We believe in only Babuji Maharaj, No one can be as great as Him.


Regards
Ravi

Anonymous said...

I met a man this time last year through work and we became very good friends. I knew he practised meditation and although I had no interest in this area he slowly began to introduce me At first I did try to participate but I guess I'm just not cut out for it after explaining my feelings on the matter he still continued to talk constantly about the benefits of meditation. I held firm and refused to meet his group of friends or attend any of their meetings. He could become quite cold and distant after returnig from these meetings. He attended a seminar in Denmark last year and called on arriving home, it was then I became worried about this meditation group and looked up the web site. At the time I was,nt really sure of the name let alone the true nature of this organization called sahaj marg. I am so grateful I found all your blogs and discussions it has helped me at least argue back with a little more knowledge behind me. I've wanted to desert this man and leave him to his precious sect only I am human and I do care. I won't win but at least I tryed and maybe planted a few seeds of doubt along the way, thanks again.

Christian said...

"Divine Master in the real sense never dies nor he requires physical body, hence, no question of living master."

This is a confusion with god, isn't it?

It seems easy to make religious claims of that kind when the person is not there anymore to give clarifications.

Babuji considered Lalaji as more useful than god and praised him as everything for him. Probably that Lalaji did the same with his sufi master, and this guy with his master and so on and so on.

Why to cut the chain? Who was praising Babuji that way? And who, now is praising this person that way?

There must be some reason why a physical body is needed.

Therefore, the question, nowadays, is who is the master? I agree that we have a problem if we claim that it is Chari. But if he is not who is it? Is there one?

Maybe the problem is somewhere else. I suggest that there is no real master anymore because there is no need, and there is no need because there is no real disciple.

Alexis said...

Hello Ravi,
I didn't heard about these informations, but I'm really interesting. Could you tell us the story with more details ?
Thanks a lot
Alexis Mielkarski

4d-Don said...

Hi Ravi and Anonymous...

Thank you for sharing. Information will set us free. This is the first time in our history that this type of "information" technology can finally expose these so called "spiritual" scams and invasions by "nationalists" in the name or "freedom of religion".
What we are seeing is the "business" of religion and not "sprirituality" as we have come to understand it. It might mean that we will have to adopt a new word for God or the Divine...I have been using the ONE!! as a "numeric, neutral, non-gender" and more "logical" as in the Greek sense of the LOGOS as "logic as described by sound using words"...All these "businesses" of religion cannot pass the test of "logic" which the ONE (GOD) does. There is not symetry, either as the poor and the family are "left out in the cold" so as to insure "bliss" or the "Divine"...These groups are really attracted to the "material" and the logic of "spirituality" exposes them quite "readily"...

Interesting Ravi what you bring...Please continue sharing with us..

Information will set us free....We have the technology, let' s use it so as the protect those who have not yet been exposed to these groups...

Keep on the Sunny Side of Life..

You gotta laugh cause it's not funny!!

4d-don

Christian said...

Hi Don,

the One is not neutral in french, but masculine. Ah! Ah! Ah!

from what I understand, the best number for god is the zero, and if you don't mind, use a lower case first letter or you are simply revealing your religious base.

do you fear to be called a blasphemer? I assure you, it will not be by god.

Christian said...

Ravi,

I'd like to add something.

According to Chari, that's something he told me once, those who follow another group than his "did simply not recognize the master where he is".

I suppose that the master fusionned into him, or that it is what he wants people to believe, or maybe that it is what he is finally convinced of, after doubting, at the death of Babuji, that any transmission would ever occur again?

Of course it is difficult to believe that he is the master when we see the results of his activity and how he treats people: like slaves.

But what if?
I will always have that doubt unless new events clear it from my heart, what if?
I can't forget what I felt with him.
Was it power and spiritual materialism, or the spirituality from the centre?

The transmission given by Brother Narayana and his associates is very subtle and light, and is not causing any weight on the heart, which is not the case with the SRCMtm members. It is the only way I can say that there is something probably wrong at the SRCMtm at a spiritual level.

But you see, this Chari guy is an expert manipulator and even I still have roots of his influence in my mind that I still need to clean.

Thanks a lot if you can bring some light on this topic.

4d-Don said...

Hi Michael and all...

Here for your perusal are a group of messages from a "SMSF srcm" sent to me on my WIKI User Page. You will notice that he/she is "unhappy" and under stress (the use of "CAPITALS" indicates "yelling")as he still belongs to the group (the Mission or SRCM).

He/she seems to have no proof for his allegations or does not offer any, and is probably very sad to see his "spiritual" path become a public scandal...We can all sympathize with that feeling...It is the same "feeling" that finally caused most of us to "leave" the Mission...

Read with compassion and a "prayer" for him/her...


From SMSF-Srcm (Nov/06)

SMSF is owned by the masters son. Dicretion for the monies that you
donate to SMSF is directed by him. What is heck happened to srcm ?

After decades i can reveal what the hell has changed since 1983. Money Money Money that is what the whole thing seems to be about. The more money you have the more access to the "Master".

There used to be a free forum back in the early nineties for srcm which was shutdown by the "master". Barry Day the preceptor from Louisiana questioned "Why the heck are you shaming us to donate" ? Barry Day was removed from preceptorship right away.

No idol worship ? Why are we selling pictures of the master. "Silent auctions" are generating thousands. Each center is judged by the $$ sent in. This we have heard from their International Secretary. Decent self respecting people are leaving SRCM...since they soon realize what this is all about.

In Tamil Nadu Chennai a preceptor stood up publicly and asked Chari where all the money was going ?? Chari was so "hurt" he walked away and did not give sittings for a couple of months. Next he removed that preceptor and 12 others. Ha, so much for openess and questioning.

I have been in this long enough to know that the direction of change in Sahaj Marg is drastic. It used to be that we marketed this as a free system. Nowadays in India new entrants are told "In all other systems you will waste money, at least here you will get something for your money".

Why are people leaving ? Because they soon realize there is no master or meditation, this is just a product. You want to have access to the master you need to be a multi-millionaire whom the master can be "associated with" for this own mktg. If you want to do something for the mission you will be eliminated by the Inner Circle because of power plays. Has anyone meditating been close to the master.

You will see ABJECT FEAR in the people around him. Everyone similing and trying to outdo the other. How many abhyasis and preceptors have left ? Are all of them having "ego" problems ??

SMSF is another way to circumvent the law. Who the hell is paying for the 100 personal attendants of chari ? YOUR $$. Do you think Santosh Khanjee, Masters son all travel at their OWN expense to Masters trips ? Do you think the home and businees were all built without the missions $$.


Reply to "SMSF srcm"

Hi SMSF srcm...

Thanks for you message...I placed it at the end of the page...

So, do you have any proof of what you say.

1. Can you tell me a little about
yourself...

a. Abhyasi? Still part of SRCM?
b. Preceptor?
c. Which part of the world (India,
Europe, USA, Canada ...)
d. Why speak out now?


2. Master's son, Krisha, owns the
SMSF? Is there documentation or
statements to this effect?

3. Barry Day is let go for speaking
out? Does Barry Day speak out
now, or is he still in SRCM?

4. Do you intend to "go public" as
many have done? Are you
willing to "testify" (stand up
and be counted) or give "your
testimonial" anonymously.
(compilation is in progress in
Europe).

5. Do you have any evidence that the
"inner circle" is travelling free
of charge or at the expense of
the Mission? (You mentionned one
name and "son" of the Master)

6. Words written anonymously have no
weigth and are just "hearsay" or
gossip. Will you furnish a name
(your first name and city) with
the understanding that I can
print it, and/or proof or
evidence if that is possible?

Thanks for your contribution to the Wealth of Material being sent to me daily...If you want to communicate more "anonymously" than this, you can send it to "don-4d-don@hotmail.com"
(apparently, he/she does not as he continues...)

Don--don 20:33, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Hi Don,

I am still associated with the system as i do believe in the system working. However the PROPAGANDA of this current ORGANIZATION is of worry to me. Dr. Barry Day from Louisiana left the system as countless others who QUESTIONED what was going on. I do believe the INNER CIRCLE (headed by Santosh Khahjee) is in charge of every little detail. You will be shocked at the sheer callousness with which prefects are made. Run around Master for 2 years on his travels, prove you have the $$ to run around after him and donate incessantly you will not be a prefect but part of the WORKING COMMITTEE of the mission. Why are all e-mails detailing "thousands of abhyasis" with Master. DOES IT MATTER ? Whether 2 people show up OR 5 thousand. Do you know how much $$ this organization is generating DAILY ?? Can anyone ASK ?

At the end of each function, celebration, accounting is done to figure HOW MUCH CAN WE SEND TO CHEENAI ? ARE ALL THESE ASHRAMS OCCUPIED ?? Usually there are scant folks there. Retirees who have often have nothing to do and no family.

THIS IS THE WAY OF THE HOUSEHOLDER ? LEAVE YOUR FAMILY AND RUN AFTER THE MASTER LIKE MAD TO TIMBUKTU. WHAT NONSENSE !!!! THIS IS ENCOURAGED. READ THE NOMINATION OF THE SUCCESSOR. AJAY BHATTER. 2nd PARAGRAPH. MOST PREFECTS IN OTHER ORGANIZAITIONS HAVE TO BE CELIBATE MONKS, ONLY IN THIS CAN YOU LIVE YOUR LIFE NORMALLY. REALLY !!! ASK ANY ORGANZAIOTN RELATED FOLK HOW MUCH TIME THEY LEAVE ACUTALLY SPEND WTH FAMILY. NONE. EVERYTHING IS MASTER. ADORE THE MASTER. WORSHIP THE MASTER. BE WITH THE MASTER.

THIS USED TO BE THE WAY OF THE HOUSEHOLDER IN BABUJI'S TIME. BTW, WHERE ARE THE PEOPLE FROM BABUJI'S TIME. EXTINCT. SYSTEMATICALLY REMOVED. K.C. VARDACHARIS SON WAS HUMILIATED IN FRONT OF THE MASTER (SO THAT HE WOULD GET UP AND LEAVE). HE LOOKED AT MASTER, WHO WAS LAUGHING AT THIS HUMILIATION AND FROM THAT DAY HE WALKED UP AND LEFT.

WHERE IS BABUJIS DAUGHTER KASTURI ? NO LONGER AROUND IN SMSF, SRCM. SHE IS MAKING HER OWN PREFECTS. WHERE IS SHAHSI TANDON FROM BABUJIS TIME ? ALL GONE. THIS IS DELIBERATE SYSTEMATIC ELIMINATION. THE CADRE OF ABHYASIS ARE COMING IN ARE ALL MANMAT CATEGORY. EXTOLL MASTER TO THE SKIES. RUN AROUND HIM. PROVIDE $$ . READ THE DETAILS OF SMSF. ALL FINAL CALLS IN SMSF FOR FUNDS WILL BE MADE BY KRISHNA. WHY WAS JAYSHREE LALBHAI MADE PART OF THE WORKING COMMITTEE ???? BECAUSE SHE IS A MULTIMILLIONAIRE WITH NON STOP ACCESS TO MASTER.


Hi SMSF srcm...

Thanks for the Info....I guess you know the "ins" and "outs" of the Mission so you must still be "in" and do not want to "expose" yourself.

I will wait for your next instalment...and I am sorry that you are caught in such a "terrible" situation, if things are as you describe them...It must be terrible. Is this the "path to the ONE God" for you? Do you think that the ONE God favours such "goings ons" with "blessings"?

don

MY OPINIONS ARE NOT BASED TO TRASH SMSF SRCM. HOWEVER THERE SEEMS TO BE NO WAY TO CHANGE THE "HUMAN ELEMENT" AND "EGO"'S THAT HAVE SCREWED UP THIS FANTASTIC MARG. POLITICS, POWER, MONEY THAT IS WHAT THIS IS ALL ABOUT IT SEEMS. DO YOU THINK ANY ABHYASI CAN LAST FOR A SINGLE DAY IF HE SAYS SOMETHING TO SANTHOSH ???????????????????? THE INNER CIRCLE OF THE ORGANIZATION WILL GET YOU. NOTHING AGAINST CHARI. HE LISTENS TO WHAT THESE INNER CIRCLE SOB'S TELL HIM. WHAT CAN BE DONE ABOUT THAT !!!!!!! TO ANYONE READING THIS, MAKE SURE YOU DO YOUR PRACTICE FORGET ABOUT YOUR EGOS WITH THESE INNER CIRCLE SOB'S AND PRAY THAT BABUJI AND THE GREAT LINE OF MASTERS SHOWS THE WAY FORWARD TO CHARI.

The messages are not "signed"

Anonymous said...

I have written a comment to Don as I think you all do great work. Only it's too heavy and focuses all the energy on the mission and the mind conditioned abhyasis. Really you may as well write or talk to a brick wall. The real issues lies with the families and friends who become deeply hurt by this blatant abuse of thier loved ones. Is it possible to set up a blog page for our use with your input?

Alexis said...

Ravi,
If abhyasis from Shajahanpur ashram didn't were with Chariji, they were with S.P. Srivastava ? or with Umeshchandra Saxena ? another one ?
Thanks to answer me

Christian said...

Hi Anonymous,

why is it necessary to start a new blog focussed on these problems? They are related to the others, and so the discussion must not be separated. I advise Michael, Don, Elodie and Alexis, not to allow the content of their blogs to be used that way.

Actualy, it can be an attempt to eliminate what is a problem for the members of the mission, in order to redirect people to this new blog of contestation, politically correct and approved by the mission. In fact, it could be a way to hold contestation in the mission by hijacking it.

Readers, please also read my comment about the message posted by 4d-don concerning his mails with "SMSF srcm" (published on Michael's and Elodie's blogs), published on Elodie's blog and copy-pasted below, to understand why I make this warning:

"Tout d'abord, je fais remarquer que ce "SMSF srcm" a bien lu nos blogs et ne dit rien de plus que ce que nous avons déjà dit dans nos analyses.

Contrôle de l'information et terrorisme
"There used to be a free forum back in the early nineties for srcm which was shutdown by the "master"."
"Barry Day the preceptor from Louisiana questioned "Why the heck are you shaming us to donate" ? Barry Day was removed from preceptorship right away."

Idolatrie
"No idol worship ? Why are we selling pictures of the master."

Argent et business
"SMSF is owned by the masters son. Dicretion for the monies that you donate to SMSF is directed by him."
"Money Money Money that is what the whole thing seems to be about. The more money you have the more access to the "Master"."
""Silent auctions" are generating thousands. Each center is judged by the $$ sent in. This we have heard from their International Secretary."
"Nowadays in India new entrants are told "In all other systems you will waste money, at least here you will get something for your money"."
"You want to have access to the master you need to be a multi-millionaire whom the master can be "associated with" for this own mktg."
"Who the hell is paying for the 100 personal attendants of chari ?"
"prove you have the $$ to run around after him and donate incessantly you will not be a prefect but part of the WORKING COMMITTEE of the mission. Why are all e-mails detailing "thousands of abhyasis" with Master. DOES IT MATTER ? Whether 2 people show up OR 5 thousand. Do you know how much $$ this organization is generating DAILY ??"
"At the end of each function, celebration, accounting is done to figure HOW MUCH CAN WE SEND TO CHEENAI ?"
"ALL FINAL CALLS IN SMSF FOR FUNDS WILL BE MADE BY KRISHNA."

Processus de filtrage
"Decent self respecting people are leaving SRCM...since they soon realize what this is all about."
"Why are people leaving ? Because they soon realize there is no master or meditation, this is just a product."
"How many abhyasis and preceptors have left ? Are all of them having "ego" problems ??"
"Dr. Barry Day from Louisiana left the system as countless others who QUESTIONED what was going on."
"WHERE ARE THE PEOPLE FROM BABUJI'S TIME. EXTINCT. SYSTEMATICALLY REMOVED. K.C. VARDACHARIS SON WAS HUMILIATED IN FRONT OF THE MASTER (SO THAT HE WOULD GET UP AND LEAVE). HE LOOKED AT MASTER, WHO WAS LAUGHING AT THIS HUMILIATION AND FROM THAT DAY HE WALKED UP AND LEFT. WHERE IS BABUJIS DAUGHTER KASTURI ? NO LONGER AROUND IN SMSF, SRCM. SHE IS MAKING HER OWN PREFECTS. WHERE IS SHAHSI TANDON FROM BABUJIS TIME ? ALL GONE. THIS IS DELIBERATE SYSTEMATIC ELIMINATION."

Ce point est un élément essentiel à partir duquel je me suis mis à douter de Chari.
Je vous rappelle que pour avoir la voie libre, il lui fallait se débarrasser de toute source légitime de contestation, et il l'a fait.
Une fois celà obtenu, il pouvait détourner la SRCMtm de son but selon son maitre plan, pour en faire un business lucratif.

Chantage, manipulation, pouvoir et terrorsisme
"In Tamil Nadu Chennai a preceptor stood up publicly and asked Chari where all the money was going ?? Chari was so "hurt" he walked away and did not give sittings for a couple of months. Next he removed that preceptor and 12 others."

Dérive ou piraterie?
"I have been in this long enough to know that the direction of change in Sahaj Marg is drastic. It used to be that we marketed this as a free system."
"If you want to do something for the mission you will be eliminated by the Inner Circle because of power plays."
"I do believe the INNER CIRCLE (headed by Santosh Khahjee) is in charge of every little detail."
"DO YOU THINK ANY ABHYASI CAN LAST FOR A SINGLE DAY IF HE SAYS SOMETHING TO SANTHOSH ???????????????????? THE INNER CIRCLE OF THE ORGANIZATION WILL GET YOU."

De l'amour pour le maitre, vraiment?
"You will see ABJECT FEAR in the people around him. Everyone similing and trying to outdo the other."

Intégrité de la mission et mise en pratique des principes spirituels
"SMSF is another way to circumvent the law."
"the PROPAGANDA of this current ORGANIZATION is of worry to me."


Ensuite, je remarque que "SMSF srcm" commet la même erreur que nous faisons tous, si je peux dire ainsi, à savoir de considérer que Chari est honnête.
Il m'a fallu du temps avant d'envisager le fait que Chari, étant le point concentrant tous les pouvoirs, était le seul responsable des dérives de la mission.
"THE INNER CIRCLE OF THE ORGANIZATION WILL GET YOU. NOTHING AGAINST CHARI. HE LISTENS TO WHAT THESE INNER CIRCLE SOB'S TELL HIM. WHAT CAN BE DONE ABOUT THAT !!!!!!! TO ANYONE READING THIS, MAKE SURE YOU DO YOUR PRACTICE FORGET ABOUT YOUR EGOS WITH THESE INNER CIRCLE SOB'S AND PRAY THAT BABUJI AND THE GREAT LINE OF MASTERS SHOWS THE WAY FORWARD TO CHARI."

Je considère au contraire, ayant directement adressé ma contestation à Chari, qu'il n'est pas manipulé par le "inner cercle", mais qu'il est celui qui active et manipule le inner circle comme sa meilleure interface de pouvoir dans le système.
Il faut concevoir Chari comme le cerveau, l'inner circle comme les nerfs et les organes sensoriels, et le reste de la pyramide comme les différents effecteurs du corps.
Il ne faut donc pas prier pour que les abhyasis soient dirigés vers Chari, mais au contraire qu'ils en soient protégés.
Pouvez-vous imaginer un seul instant qu'un maitre spirituel laisserait se développer un tel merdier s'il n'était pas celui qui veux que les choses soient ainsi?
Croyez-vous que Babuji aurait laissé les choses se développer ainsi?
Pensez-vous que la mission aurait pu avoir le visage qu'elle avait s'il avait eu les principes de Chari?

Le fait que cet anonyme nous abreuve d'informations qui vont dans le sens de notre poil, mais qui ne font que reprendre les éléments des analyses que nous avons publiées sur nos blogs, pour finalement conclure de manière à récupérer les gens en leur demandant de passer outre l'inner circle, la mission et les egos des dirigeants afin qu'ils se reconcentrent sur leur pratique et sur Chari - c'est-à-dire afin qu'ils soient de nouveau neutralisés - sent le soufre.
Il s'agit en effet d'une incohérence qui me laisse penser que cette personne manipule l'information pour le compte de la SRCMtm.
Si tel est le cas, attention, ça devient subtil.

De plus, je fais remarquer que s'il croit en le système du Sahaj Marg, pourquoi ne va-t-il pas voir ailleurs, où ce système est aussi pratiqué, si ce n'est parce qu'il est attaché, non au système, mais au maitre?
"I am still associated with the system as i do believe in the system working"

Puisque sa loyauté va à Chari, c'est bien qu'il travaille pour lui, donc pour la SRCMtm.
Donc, Don, si je peux me permettre, je te dirais de considérer le tableau dans sa globalité pour mieux voir le petit détail suspect."

Anonymous, maybe I don't understand well what you mean, but I fear we undergo a very subtle manipulation of the blogs by the system.

At least, I ask Michael to try to consider the possibility seriously.

Michael said...

All,

I have no problem creating a spot where families, friends and ex-members can have a place to communicate. I can do so by simply creating a spot at the top of this blog for comments in some organized fashion. I'd prefer to organize comments differently than how they are today anyway. This might take a while, but I will work on it.

If others want to dedicate a blog for this purpose, it is a trivial thing to do and not something any of us have time to manage. I agree with Christian that creating a new blog for this purpose may only serve to dillute the message that we are making available, but also agree with Anonymous, that it would help to have a more organized method for people adversely affected by SRCM to comment.

Michael

4d-Don said...

Hi all

... and specially "Anonymous" who wants another site for Families of impacted abhyasis and ex-abhyasis...

(this is in reply to a message left on my blog also...I do not publish nor reply to the "insulting ones" but I keep them for future use...book, legal, who knows...Just to show the "caliber of the so-called "spiritual Path" that is the "all-new" Sahaj Marg (tm))

Hi Anonymous...

Thanks for the comments...I thought we (the bloggers) were already communicating to "everyone", including families of abhyasis and ex-abhyasis, and not just to ourselves....

I encourage anyone who has been impacted by any group, be they religious or not, to make it known to the rest of the world so that any abuse of "power" can be exposed and eventually stopped as anyone who negatively impacts others wants to remain in the 'shadows' and doesn't want their impact (usually words and claims, as covert "temptation/fear" manipulation, in the case of "religions" and so-called "spiritual groups" such as Sahaj Marg), to be know to others.

The tactic of claiming to "represent the DIVINE" or of "taking one to GOD" is as old as mankind and will not stop easily but we now have the technology at our disposal that will give us an "equal playing field". We don't have to be victims and can start "fighting back".

In the case of Religions and the "God merchants", the WORD is mightier that the sword. One can't sustain the "I represent God" and "I will take you to God" very long and has to keep "growing the Mission" with new "blood" and/or new "lost souls" of other so-called "corrupt" relgions.

If the outcome was positive, I would not care. But in my case, the outcome has been negative.

If others have had the same experience they can:

1 Create a blog and give their experience, as we have done.
2. Give comments on other's blogs and don't be afraid to sign you statements, even in an ID or USER name.
3. Encourage others to continue gathering and centralizing (not scattering)the info and putting it on-line and once in a while, add something.
4. Encourage others to check and re-check all the info that they receive on the WEB, including the RELIGIOUS PR machines and the info in our blogs. We are not "representatives of GOD" either. lol

In conclusion, the claims of Miracles and Messages from "beyond the grave" are to be "suspect" from the get go. SHOW ME THE MONEY should be the criteria and not in 6 months as Sahaj Marg claims. With most cults, in 6 months, one's family life is gone and one is "hooked".

They (The Spiritual EAST) have "psychologists" at their disposal, a long tradition of "thriving" with such "religious" claims and myths as is used by the "new" Sahaj Marg. There are 75,000 such "Guru" or "meditation" groups in India alone, ready to "invade" the crumbling foundations of Christian (and other) religions (Catholics, mostly) and steal (or "con" as in "to harvest with words") their sheep. The money gathered from the "new batch" is used to purchase structures (including castles (in Europe), ranches (Texas), Commercial buildings (Europe), schools (India, Switzerland) and real estate (the World) with which to grab the next group, as one group becomes "wise" to the "game". It's the business of Religion and Spiritual Capitalism, and it works....

So we are out there and taking all the abuse from this group as we "expose" them, their words and actions...You can stand with us and support and take over some of the work. (copy and post to other sites)

You can help by chosing one of the above and get "dirty" like the rest of us. We are not smarter nor more learned than you or anyone else.

We are merely "educating" ourselves and sharing the INFO on-line...That is what scares the "INSTITUTIONS" and the ABUSIVE STRUCTURES"...We dare "speak" or "write" freely...

But like all muscles, if we don't use the "Freedom of thought and Speech" muscles, they will atrophy and we will lose them. You don't have to be an expert, not have your own house in order to join in. They (the INSTITUTE OF THEY) do not have their house in order as they go about "advising" others on how to live and even "how to REACH GOD" a God they have not "met"....The claims that "they", have a secret path or that they have already been there is just that a CLAIM...we can use the word ALLEGED...lol

There is, around Europe in the (on-line) Constituent Assembly phenomenon, a movement to start giving words to the tactics of "religions" in a "Bill of Responsibilities" (to complement the many "Bills of Rights" of the past centuries). A group that uses "intellectual terrorism" to gather wealth and power over the population, with words of "damnation" or "God help him/her" in the case of Sahaj Marg, if they leave the Mission, should be exposed as "Intellectual terrorists" and not be granted "tax exempt" or "Charitable" status as that tactic is "not charitable" in a civilized society. Most religions are of course concerned. That could include "hate litterature" and words such as "homosexuals are "un-natural".

Keep on the Sunny Side of Life...

And keep laughing, cause it's not funny!!! (an old Acadianism)

4d-don.

Christian said...

Hi Michael,

The first aim of the blogs is to reveal.

Though they serve at strengthening people by showing them they are not alone and by giving them tracks for understanding what has happen to them, their aim is not charity nor to provide a service of psychological assistance.

Every one can come on your blog and give a testimony, therefore reveal, without a specific section for that.

If people do not, contrary to what Anonymous says, it is not because a section or a specific blog is missing, but because people have fear, because they are endoctrinated and still think that it may be possible that Chari is "god", or because they are so disgusted that they are psychologically broken.
Remember how you were.

It is also because the information about the blogs is kept a secret I do not know how.
When I left Geneva, I met an abhyasi from the group of Chari who did not know about the existence of these blogs, which is simply incredible for me - though the prefects did know about them.
It is also a proof of how powerful the system is controling information, when you know the power of the arab telephone between the abhyasis.
However, maybe that it becomes difficult now to contain information: the best way would be to reorient the attention of the abhyasis on a decoy blog.

Organising blogs in thematic sections is a good idea, nevertheless.
Therefore, you have to do it for all the topics we discuss here, which is a task.

Anonymous said...

What I was trying to say was the abhyasi in sahaj marg cannot see the forest for the trees and are not being opened to the truth as the information is not available.The infomation on your blogs is all they need to begin questioning thier growing involvement in this group. Fear is obviously playing a major role.Therefore my thinking was friends and family whom they may trust more can perhaps guide thier thinking better, I would like to know how you reach more of them?

4d-Don said...

Hi all...


From Spirituality to Endoctrination of the Young and now "service provider"...

Maybe "community service" is the height of spirituality that Sahaj Marg (tm) (Chari's group) "adherents" will now be "sentenced" to... They might now do something useful with their lives rather than wasting other people's time, "destroying" (part of the "cosmos", according to Chari) families and societies, in their cancerous quest for new "abhyasis" to grow the Mission from European castles and Texas ranches....

We'll have to trust (and use) the INTERNET and the "global communication networks" to undo the endoctrination that the kids will suffer from the so-called "Value Based Education" of the Business elite...

The kids will see who is "simple" and who is not!! They will start to question how many houses, and dollars are needed by the Master and his "inner circle" to travel around the world while the poor starve!!

Ah! The business of Religion!!

The ONE (God..not a Male) is Great...

Here are some links to the schools that all three schisms of the MISSION are now into...

You will notice that they (some of them) are also into hospitals, training of nurses, vocational training, food services, etc...

Chari's group who apparently have now taken over Umesh's group's Ashram in India, has plans to open a new school in Switzerland. They are hoping for 1,000 kids at the OMEGA (why the word omega??) School in Chennai from 150 this year...

Here are the links...

Chari's group...(THE MISSION)
http://www.omegaschools.org/
news_inauguration.htm

Narayana's Group (ISRC)
http://www.sahajsevasamsthan.org/#

Umesh's Group...
http://www.babujimemorial.org/
aboutschool.htm

And the power struggles go on in the name of SPIRITUALITY....With "God" (the MALE) on our side...ONE takes no sides!! and is not MALE!!

4d-don

que said...

I have a lot more I could be writing only I think I would be betraying my friend. He has betrayed my trust however forgivness is everything. I am not a person who has ever been brought up by holy beliefs. Sata claus was the only lie I can remember being taught(Iknew the rest was lies)I was once a battered wife and also controlled by a manipulative, lying, charmer. Do not suggest to me a lack of understanding when you leave a situation of mind control. I know full well the feelings of shame guilt and anger which are conjured up by the perpetrators of power. I am only advising a kind heart and a warmth goes a lot further to release, knowing someone is on the other side when you leave is a comfort, at least consider it.

4d-Don said...

Hi Christian..

You mentionned a while back that the ONE is not "neutral" in French and that the Zero is more suited to represent God (in your opinion).

This, as I see it, is in accordance with Buddhism, I might add. As far as Buddhism is concerned, being a philosophy that does not profess a "deity" as necessary in their theology, Zero (Stillness or emptiness) is at the centre of the wave (EM and others) it is acceptable as a "man-made" abstract concept and a philosophy.

But for me, there is "Something" out there that is "Existing" and it is not in the Stillness but in the MOTION, the LOGOS, the ACTION and That is better represented by the ONE on one side of the wave and as the abstract or "imaginary" minus ONE on the other side of the wave. That is still the representation of God but in ITS "TOTALITY" and ITS "REALITY".

In binary code, One is "Switch ON", Zero is "switch OFF". If there was "nothing" "EXISTING", I would agree with you, but I feel "intuitively" (spiritually) that there is "Something" in "existence" and IT is not ALL just an "illsion" although IT is always in "TRANSITION" or in "TRANSFORMATION" in the more "Spiritual" jargon and no part of it is REAL for infinity, including the ZERO...Just that the abstract ZERO does not move so has Zero (or no...) MOTION. Is the Zero Neutral?? Then why not the ONE?? The ONE can have no motion (in abstraction) also if one wants to because in REALITY, ALL is ONE.... And ONE is ALL!!

The part of me that changes, is still "REAL" at some TIME, as I go through it and then as with transitions, it changes to something else that is also REAL...THE ALL (Creation) is also REAL, across Time or MOTION, much as the ZERO is "timeless", "Static", "unchanging" but is NOTHING...so IT is a "REAL" NOTHING-ness making IT an "ILLUSION" or an "imaginary" point bwtween ONE and MINUS ONE that really does not exist in reality, but in the MIND, we can conceive IT, the "ZERO". In Creation Religions, it can be the place where God, having Created the ALL, then takes a "rest" or becomes a "ZERO" or NOTHING...lol...But I'm Spiritual...and Spirit is ONE and SOMETHING, not NOTHING.

Maybe the French language has to "create" a concept of the NEUTRAL if it does not already have it. It is after all a "linguistic" problem to not have a "non-neutral" numbers system!! If ALL (Creation) has to be either "Male" or "FEMALE", what about the NEUTRON in the Atomic Structure? That is certainly accepted in science, even in French and it is the Neutron that gives the atom many of its "qualities" as the Proton and the Electron, cancel each other out for a wlectrically "neutral" matter. Is this not taking "gender" a little too far??

If the French make numbers "masculine", then there is a problem with the language, not the "concept" of numbers.

Just MHO (Just my humble opinion)

I will continue with the ONE for now (For the English)...Until I go to
France...Are there other languages out there that see "numbers" as Masculin or Feminin... Is TWO Masculine, Feminine or Both?? LOL HMMMM!!!

Maybe if we (the world) can "come together" on the attributes (at least the gender) of "Numbers", we may be able to come together on the meaning of "Words" without the use of "elitism" (such as "sanskrit" or "latin")...lol

Merry Christmas everyone!!!

Peace on Earth to all of GOODWILL!!

Don

4d-don....

4d-Don said...

I have a lot more I could be writing only I think I would be betraying my friend. He has betrayed my trust however forgivness is everything. I am not a person who has ever been brought up by holy beliefs. Sata claus was the only lie I can remember being taught(Iknew the rest was lies)I was once a battered wife and also controlled by a manipulative, lying, charmer. Do not suggest to me a lack of understanding when you leave a situation of mind control. I know full well the feelings of shame guilt and anger which are conjured up by the perpetrators of power. I am only advising a kind heart and a warmth goes a lot further to release, knowing someone is on the other side when you leave is a comfort, at least consider it.

Hi Que...

I have a few suggestions for you so that we can communicate more effectively.

1. Chose a name (an alias or AKA.."also known as" for yourself and sign your messages as that.
2. Address your messages to someone if you want a reply...If you want to get feedback from everyone, address it to "ALL"..
3. Make paragrnaphs when you change the subject...
4. Capitalizing words is for YELLING! or SHOUTING! or BEING LOUD!
5. Jokes are followed by lol (laughing out loud) or a :-) (smiling face)


About your contributions to the conversation...

1. I don't understand how you could betray someone by speaking your mind so "don't betray anyone"...don't say anything that could betray your friend. Try to help "him/her" and also speak your mind so as not to betray yourself.
2. If he/she has betrayed you, to forgive is "divine" and "just plain smart for yourself" so you can get on with life.
3. "Holy beliefs" are not what they're cracked up to be. Life like spirituality is for experiencing and from that build your own "holy beliefs". Sometimes we don't have the information to build a complete line of logic, and some things we accept on faith, like "love", the goodness of most people etc... but when one is confronted with a person or group who is doing a lot of bad or immoral things, or not doing what they preach, we must be free to change our mind.

So with the "Divine" we use belief because the ONE (what some call God) is not "knowable" although most religions and "spiritual groups" claim to having met this ONE and to know IT. That is what they "sell". For them, belief is for "dogmas", or "tenets" and is usually used by religions or institutions to make people accept what does not make sense.
4. Santa Claus was use on me too...But I got caught by the Catholics also, and Sahaj Marg is the last one. NO MORE...
5. I'm sorry that you were once a "battered wife"...don't accept that anymore!! Live in the Light of Truth, without fear. We can only be abused if we accept it.
6. Guilt, fear and temptation are the tools of manipulators and abusers, I agree..
7. I don't understand what you mean when you say: "knowing someone is on the other side when you leave is a comfort." I can only presume that we are "on the other side" or you are "on the other side"...
8 So here we are...What are we supposed to "consider"??

Thanks for your reply and hopefully this conversation can serve to comfort and quell you!!

We are the "victims" of this group who are "speaking out"...and sharing out experience and information.

May you have a Good Holiday season and many blessings in your life!!

4d-don...

Christian said...

Hi Anonymous,

you said it: fear is the basement of the manipulative system built by Chari.

This is not love, this is fear.

Chari is responsible, so why to pray that the abhyasis are redirected to him?

They are endoctrinated thanks to fear, how do you expect them to come to the blogs through friends who are considered like the muslims do with non-believers, or through their familly, who are only composed of egoists and materialists and blablabla?

I still do not see your point, I am sorry.

Christian said...

Hi Don,

What I meant was that whatever we claim as being god is just a representation of it in our mind, an icon, an idea, a feeling, a conviction.
Representing god is as impossible as to mind the infinite, the nothingness, or one's own death.
That's probably the reason why in some religions, the rule is to forbid any representation of god (including a name), originally because it would cause an error in the religious system at its very base.

But as I said elsewhere, I'm convinced that god is a creation of man, and religion a creation of god.
You will understand that if you consider god as a spiritual condition, which requires the work of an aspirant and the work of a master to be reached.

To say that god is "something" "existing" "outside" of us because "why something rather than nothing" is purely speculative.
Science still does not understand these matters.
I know a bunch of equations describing some exotic aspects of the universe including its existence were produced, but they are considered as aberrations impossible to understand (now?).
So we can speculate, but be sure that the probability is very high that we are far from reality with our beliefs.

My proposition is that god is nowhere else than in the mind, therefore into us.
I see god as the secret program of human kind towards which we feel to go, but towards which we are prevented to go.
This goal is for instance confused with feelings like love, and the path to god in a system like Sahaj Marg TM is paved with feelings and very human processes (conditions), untill the final state where everything finishes.
What you get is not one, nor love, nor peace, it is an empty state "full" of nothing.

From this, I came to the conclusion that all spirituality, from which the idea of god comes, is based on the incorrect interpretation and understanding of purely bodily phenomena.
The more I think about all this, the more I think that everything in our consciousness and experience is a creation of the body.
There would be no god outside, there would be no consciousness outside and independently of the body.

All those disembodied spiritualities we have been invaded with from the middle-east and India, starting by christianism, are just power manipulative tools intending to cut the individual from his direct link with the spirit.
Such individuals, cut from themselves, become flesh for the monster: easy to move by the fear of death.
Even the Sahaj Marg TM claims to restore this link, but through slavery?

If we were to give back an emboddied spirituality to humanity, the actual system would collapse and religions would disappear.
If each human was restored fully with his direct link to the spirit, which starts by restoring the link with the body, he could not be handled anymore by those who are behind history.

That's my dream: each man as a sun.
However, how can we reach that in a system binding all possibilities, and still killing for its preservation?
A dream.

Take the example of the French population, which considers at 56% that the Sun rotates around the Earth (http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xnrq1_quiveutgagnerdesmillions-bestof), and you will understand why we must not have any ambitious plan for the human kind (for France, this result is a mixture of the uncontrolled immigration I call invasion and the suicidal educational policy of the imbeciles that govern this country: 6 Frenchs out of 10 think that the Sun rotates around the Earth, and the world calls France a developped country !!! The world should rather come there and see what kind of people populate this nuclear country now. A genocyde is occurring silently, while the media, the spiritual leaders and the religious, claim we are all brothers and sisters...).

We are all linked inside, trapping all each others.
The inertia is too big, and the tools we have to bring back freedom are corrupted by the belief of a disemboddied consciousness.
Therefore, all the spiritualities make the error to have death as their core, instead of life.
These are putrid systems of belief, making people sick and crazy.

To come back to your text:
Everything you perceive, even if existing in the physical world, is created in your consciousness through an illusion.
Perceiving is to build a representation of the world in the mind.
It is not the real, whatever the degree of correlation with the physical world.

What you feel, even intuitively, is perception.
It can sound like real, it does not change anything to the fact that it is a perception.
Perceptions can be fake (hallucination, illusion, phantom limb, projected pain, etc.).
How to know, therefore, if this perception is related to something real outside, when no instrument exists to make an objective measurement of this object?

Spirituality roots in perceptions if we take time to examine things in details.
So, it is not related to something outside, but to "things" inside, which probably have no other existence than in the body.
They are however real, and not only because we perceive them, but also because lot of them are traces of the past.
We should surely consider these traces as something else than proofs or roots for myths that caused millions of deaths and will surely cause few more billions.

Christian said...

I want to go back to what anonymous said (posted by Don on Elodie's blog):

"In Tamil Nadu Chennai a preceptor stood up publicly and asked Chari where all the money was going ?? Chari was so "hurt" he walked away and did not give sittings for a couple of months. Next he removed that preceptor and 12 others."

Chari would like to make us believe that he has reached the complete self-negation stage, a prerequisite for the fusion with the master?

It rather seems that some behaviors reveal a lot.

An impostor.

4d-Don said...

Hi Christian...

By the way, ZERO is also Masculine in French. So ONE is Male and NOTHING (ZERO) is MALE!!...I guess we can say that ALL (Creation or ONE to "infinity" is also MALE)...So no place for the FEMININE!!! Adjust the language!!! The numbers are "NEUTRAL"...

Ah! Ah! Ah!...lol

You gotta laugh cause it's not funny...

Have a Merry Christmas and may you find "peace on Earth" cause I know you are of "GOODWILL"...

Don

parmesh said...

Dear Michael,
Very intersting to read ur story.I am practising sahaj marg for last 4 years and never experienced anything like stunting the growth of personality.I am working in a oil nd Gas co, and all my colleagues can verify that it has helped me immensely in being a good human being. Sahaj Marg is not only what Chari ji is emphasizing( I've never met Mr chariji and neither intend to) rather its the way to develop ourselves in complete haman being. Babuji never asked for any favour, money etc in life and never considered himself a Guru.He considered himself simply a peon of Almighty and apread the teaching of his Guru sri Lalaji throughout his life.He ( Sri Babuji) has always asked us to increase the power of observation to experience the reality.And as for as ur objection regarding use of will power is concerned,it can be explained as- if you want to be head of a company, you have to develop certain qualities, working at ur optimum level,evtime thinking good for company- its a natural thing because nature has given us discrimination and thought power and its our duty to use this.Similarly when we aim for God,we have to adopt our tendencies in that way and use our will power in that direction. I would suggest a deep study of master's book ( only authored by Sri Ramchandra ji of shahjehanpur and Fatehgarh( Babuji and Lalaji Maharaj)).They were gem of humanity and their lifestyle is worth emulating .We don,t need necesarily to associate with SRCM (of Chariji).Its my experience that a good and sincere practice will lead us to the ultimate aim ( of realisation) while following our present religion.Teaching are universal.
thanks
parmesh ( lucknow, India)

Michael said...

Parmesh,

The practice of heart based meditation is beneficial. You have experienced this. Since you haven't met Chari, you have not seen first hand the inner workings of the SRCM inner circle. It's beyond the sensible use of power to execute an organization and has much more to do with furthering the personal needs of individuals in the inner circle.

As for the books you mention. I read them, studied them for more than a decade and taught them as a preceptor. Lalaji's book, Truth Eternal has been all but lost by the SRCM and its splinter groups. I contend that Lalaji is the pure source of this Mystical tradition that extend beyond Hinduism/Sufism, etc..

I am happy to hear that you have found some benefit from meditation.

Michael

Christian said...

Hi Don!

Yes, definitely, the French God is male, whether one or zero.
And because of the dawn of Eurabia, we will soon have to call it allah, which is male also.

I do not know, but it really seems that god has something to do with gender, therefore with sex.

Surprising, isn't it?
But in fact not that much.

Why is it so?
An interesting track to explore, and which I find highly related to the theory I have just presented to you in my previous post on Michael's blog.

My guess is that the neutral would be masking something interesting to explore.

Therefore, why do you want French to castrate their male god into something neutral?
Don't you know that whatever feminists claim, they prefer entire males though they hate them in the same time?

There has to be something sexy to create an excitation, which produces a movement, otherwise, nothing happens.

For instance, love also is related to sex, and love is something central in spirituality.

Sex is central in life, and life is linked to spirituality.

We, our bodies, were all produced by sex, even those of monks, spinsters and feminists.

Sex is also the Creator.

Let's god be a gode, and understand why it is so.
The way language is structured, surprisingly, reveals a lot.

Christian said...

Hi Parmesh,

To become a complete human being is not the goal of Sahaj Marg TM, which is to realize god.
Presenting Sahaj Marg tm as a way to Become a complete human being is one more deviation introduced by Chari to get more people interested in his enterprise.
Who cares realizing god nowadays?

If you want to become a human being, I suggest you restart your psychological development, which usually and naturally stops during teenage, with another method which is psychoanalysis.

Just chose your goal, then the method, and avoid taking one for reaching what if is not done for.

Babuji was Babuji, Chari is what he is.
He is a business man and he turned the SRCMtm into something corresponding to what he is.
Furthermore, you say it, if Babuji never considered himself as a guru (I will add "explicitely", to be honnest with myself, because I was not there and was also not in Babuji's head to make such a statement), it seems to be different with Chari, who built a cult for himself (not that implicitely).

If Babuji has asked people to increase the power of observation (this is the only way to become aware and bright), you must consider the fact that in today's SRCMtm, everything is done against this, both explicitely and implicitely.

Because Nature gave us discrimination, why not to use it?
I hope you will, more and more, and will also get rid of religion.

4d-Don said...

Hi Parmesh...

If you permit me a short "interruption" in your message to Michael. I concur with Michael that Meditation is good, and that Lalaji wisdom. I also believe that prayer is good also, not as a beggar, but as a conversation with the DIVINE.

I also think that water and air are important to life, but that does not mean that "all" the air and water one can buy in the market are necessarily good or "beneficial" to a "healthy" life. Opportunists of all stripe and nationality (right or left) take over (usurp) good "movements", technologies and/or organizations and "profiteer" from the good works of others.

So meditate and get what you can from the "heart" centered meditation but remember that as "prayer" does not belong to any religion, that meditation, heart-centered meditation and transmission in "heart to heart" meditation does not belong to "Sahaj Marg" but it belongs to all of us like the sun, the air, the water, etc...These were not invented, made up, or "re-discovered" by Lalaji or Sahaj Marg, and like the inventor of "prayer" it was there from times immemorial and the source is lost in time and history.

We don't have to buy what the DIVINE has given to us freely...

May you be blessed and may you have peace in your life at this winter "festive" season

4d-don

4d-Don said...

Hi all…

Here are a few quotes from here and there that depict the “corruption” in SRCM tm since the 1980’s ….

From Lalaji (the Spiritual, Sufi)

“The search for God and Soul ... this fantasy can be cured by another fantasy who is Guru.”


Babuji (who realized the power of LOVE above all)

“Everything can be achieved by love. Meditation and other practices are of little importance in comparison to this.”


Chari (the businessman)

“A growing lightness of mind and spirit is the surest test of spiritual progress.”


(From Heart of the Lion, Parthasarathi Rajagopalachari)

"....So I repeat, the Guru is the only friend. In fact, I have said this so often, that in the Sufi philosophy, the Guru is called Friend. "The Friend is coming". Because he is the only fellow who can give his life for you. He is the only fellow, therefore, to whom you must hand over totally, a Power of Attorney....."Do with me as you think I deserve to be done with. Kick me when I have to be kicked. Beat me when I have to be beaten. Curse me when I have to be cursed. But make of me what you think I should be eventually, because only you can do it."

"So once more I say this in all humility....if you must have a Master, find a fellow who is capable of, you know, throwing you around, beating you up, cutting you to pieces. Remember Parushurama's father and the stern test that young boy had to make for obedience...."Kill your Mother". "Yes"..."

"He pulled out the sword and cut off her head. He said, "I am pleased with you my son. Ask for anything you want." He said, "I want my mother alive." And He said, "So be it." and she got up and walked off. The Guru is the Master, when you say of destiny, it means life and death. He must be the Master of your life as he must be the Master of your death." (From Heart of the Lion, Parthasarathi Rajagopalachari-see references)

This is the “lightness of Mind” that Chari see as “spiritual progress”…From the opening with a beautiful Sufi quote to the “lightness” of his own mind, one can see the downhill decrepitation into the power of the ego. How many religions have that same type of obedience? Is that not the “history of war” in his region of the planet? The author of this verse is not “a friend”, but a “tyrant”.

This is from an account by an abhyasis of Chari’s trip to Kerala in 2002.
http://www.rajeshr.net/master_visits_kerala_02.pdf

Master: In some airlines the airhostess are fat and above 40 years of old. Once I asked
them, why is it so? They said, “ we don’t want our passengers to be tempted by the
airhostess.” (laughter)
Abhyasi: Now even in Indian Airlines it is like that.
Master: That is because young girls are married and taken away by people like you
(laughter).

Oh! The Holy man who sees deep into the “SOUL” of people! Now that must be the “lightness of mind” that Chari talks about!! This must be the “love and Compassion” that Babuji was talking about and that according to Chari, the “preceptors” of the Mission are “destroying” (see the quote below)

As per his speech to the Preceptors in Jan, 2001:

In the Indian scene, the Hindus and Hinduism is corrupt. God is personified as somebody who can be bribed with gifts, with so called prasads - offering temptation of Heaven which fact Babuji emphasized in His teachings, saying that religions depends on two instruments - temptation and fear."

"I am afraid that Sahaj Marg is suffering in this way because even when Christian people become abhyasis and preceptors, they somehow, somewhere along the way seem to lose this idea of love, charity, compassion, faith and become preceptors. So what Spirituality offers and can deliver, our priesthood, I would categorize you as, say temporarily as priesthood - they destroy."


In the same visit to Kerala (in 2002)

One brother was talking about Master’s instructions to a sister named Stella of Switzerland. It seems, 3 Master had instructed her, very strictly, not to drive her car over a specific speed (120 m/hr or so…). And once when Master was sitting in her car, she drove so faster that it went wel l beyond the limit that the Master had set. Everyone was expecting Master to fire her for not obeying Him. A long silence by Master in this regard forced an abhyasi to ask Master for not shouting at Sis. Stella for this action of hers. It seems, He said to them, “ When I am there, she is not driving.”

(Is that the control that expresses “lightness of mind”? If that person was in an accident, who would be responsabile? Would Chari stand up and say that “he was driving” and that the person at the wheel was “his zombie”. If this statement is accurate, do we want judges, police, military, doctors and other public servants to be controlled by such an egotist, “arrogant manipulator”?


http://www.srcm.org/literature/recent.speeches/060120_Malaysia.jsp

If I say that religion is the greatest impediment to unity among human beings, it will not be believed by people of any religion, but you only have to look at the world scene today. It is not only Hindus and Muslims, but it is Muslims amongst themselves, the Shias versus the Sunnis, the Catholics versus the Protestants, things like that you see. There is more disharmony in this world today than perhaps ever before, even during the times of Hitler.

I would remind Chari of the “schisms” in the Mission and the power “intrigues” among the “inner circle” of the SRCM™ . The Mission should clean up its own yard before pointing at other “religions”. Is this the “lightness of mind” that Chari talks about?

The examples of this type of “double standard” is on-going in this group. Research before you become “initiated”… In one of the books of this group, thers is a claim that only one meditation is needed to affect the “control”.


Again from one of Chari’s speeches…

http://www.srcm.org/literature/recent.speeches/060711_Ahmedabad.jsp

Listen, Imbibe and Follow
A talk given by Shri Parthasarathi Rajagopalachari partly in Hindi and Gujarati
on 11th July 2006 at Ahmedabad, Gujarat.

This is the place where an on-going battle between the Hindu and the Moslems has brought donations from the Mission for the Hindu victims and not the Muslims according to one comment on the French Blog of Elodie
http://pourquevivelesahajmarg.blogspot.com/

When I bought for the school—you know, we started buying land at a particular rate. Today we are paying five times, ten times that, because we have so far acquired fourteen acres. And they say, “Why are you wasting money? You can build a school on one acre.” I say, “How?” “No, no. Why do you want such big classrooms? Too much money is being wasted.” My classrooms are big. The ceiling is twelve, thirteen, fourteen feet. I want people to study in comfort, people to teach in comfort, relax; because without a relaxed brain you cannot study anything. And my friends, my well-wishers, they say that I have wasted money! I had that criticism first when we opened our meditation hall in Manapakkam. One abhyasi who is also a contractor, crorepati [multi-millionaire], he came and said, “I could have saved you at least two crores in this meditation hall,” without knowing what I had spent. I said, “How did you find out what I had spent?” He said, “No, no, quality dekhne se pataa chal gayaa [I can tell from looking at the quality]. Two crores, you have wasted, of Mission money.” I said, “My dear friend, you build for profit—your own profit, from which you don’t give ten rupees to the Mission. I build memorials for my Master. He is worth hundreds of thousands of crores, but this is all I can afford, you see.”

For those abhyasis who donate to the Mission, for schools built by Chari for the “elite” in India can start looking at the schools in their own neighbourhoods and see the condition they are in. Charity begins at home is what the Mission is always saying when it is brought to their attention that the poor need schools, homes, and food too!!! What about a school in Africa? Our schools in Canada are “mobiles” with “low ceilings”….Who donates for such extravagance?? Become a good cititzen to your country, poorer countries and the poor in all countries and the planet first and then help the “rich” and the “elite”…



Don

Akshat said...

Hello Everyone,

This is for everyone who believes in Babuji...

If we have faith in babuji, we should continue meditation and follow the path which he has shown us. Read the books he has written.

Why should be waste our time in critisizing others for the wrong they have done.

I know one thing...The higher the responsibility given to a person the higher is the degree of penalty he has to pay if he does something wrong.

If we have that real pursuit in the life to be with the ultimate or have realization then we should go on coninuing the path shown by babuji and follow him.

Love him so much that he starts loving us....think about him so much that he starts thinking about us.....

Still if people want to get some direction he/she should definitely talk to kasturi bahenji......I hope in this community everyone knows her.

She is at present staying in Lucknow.

Regards/Pranam
Akshat

Anonymous said...

Do you not follow your matrer Permesh, I thought it was Chari not Babuji or Lajaju who was the Master.You all seem to live life from a past potential yet refuse to look to the future. If you don't recognise your own master now how will be able to infuse with your new one.

4d-Don said...

Hi Akshat...

This is from Alexis on Elodie's blog, in Europe.

Lalaji's family...
http://www.naqshmumra.blogspot.com/

Kasturi's disciple's blog...
http://kasturibhenji.blogspot.com/

If you are the one who is responsible for this blog, let us know...If you are not, do you know who is? Are they legitimate?

Thanks for your input...

don

Christian said...

Hi Akshat,

thanks for your kind intervention.

personally, I'm still a bit nervous - though much more calm - with statements of this type, which I find deeply toxic.

for instance, you say stop wasting time in criticizing others.
you would be spiritual, if not understanding what is behind, to think that it is master's will.

it is surely not a waste of time to fight a manipulative system like that of the SRCM by revealing what happens there.
who else could do it? who else did?
that was my mission with the others who participated, we did it.

it is surely not a waste of time for those who will come and read these words when they will need it.

egoism is confused with the idea of wasting time because you think it is yours.
you are the fifth or sixth to come there with these ideas.
time is never lost when it is used for what has to be done.

you also believe in a kind of hell or are you a pure mechanist?
in which case, what is the place of god in your vision of Nature?

I'd like to meet Kasturi but I don't feel to go like that imposing myself whithout a first contact.

Akshat said...

Hello Don,

I am not the person who wrote that, but yes I am aware of the person who wrote that and I feel the same whatever he has written.

Kasturi bahenji is the greatest saint as said by Babuji. Babuji said that there is only one saint in Sahaj Marg and she is the one.

I would request you all to come to Lucknow and feel for your self what Pandit ji is talking about.

You won't find any miracles, but you will feel your soul responding to the transmission you are receiving.

When she transmits, its not only to the people who are attached with the mission, but to all those who are in search of the divinity and wants to be one with the Divine. This is because Babuji didn't come only for person specific but for entire humanity and beyond.

Please feel free to ask me any queries you have.

Regards
Akshat

Akshat said...

Hello Christian,

I am really not sure why these kind of statements makes you feel TOXIC and nervous.

My idea is to tell you and others that we should me more worried about our spiritual growth.

I don't say that you are wasting your time........but will it not be better if we can try and become what babuji wanted us to become so that if a 3rd person see us....he could identify as sahaj marg abhyasi which belongs to babuji..

Babuji once said : he would like his abhyasi to be such that if anyone looks at him/her they should come to know of him. The sahajta(simplicity) should show in him.

Rest depends upon you, how you want to prioritise your thoughts..

With due respect I would never want to hurt anyone feelings, its just that I feel that have faith in babuji and love him.

Hope not to make you feel Toxic this time.

When the time come, you will definitely meet Saint Kasturi Bahenji.

Regards
Akshat

Akshat said...

Hello Don,

I do not know anything about the:

Lalaji's family...
http://www.naqshmumra.blogspot.com/

Regards
Akshat

Michael said...

Akshat,

With all respect to your beliefs in Babuji and Kasturiji...

If I am to follow your logic, then Kasturi, Babuji and Chari should then cease creating orgainizations, writing books, interacting with their diciples, or having their disciples participate in blogs, and instead focus on their own spiritual practice and encourage the same to others.

Given your logic, why even respond to this blog when you could be doing your spiritual practice? Why even go to work, or get married, or have children or have friends and associates when all you need is your practice and a relationship with your Master?

On the other hand, if you see a child about to be run over by a car,do you justify doing nothing because it distracts you from your spiritual development?

I will not speak for Don or Christian, but my efforts here IS part of my spiritual practice. It is a place for the expression of truthful experiences and forum for conversations that are forbidden within the SRCM organization. I have benefitted greatly from this process and believe that others have benefitted as well.

Given this, I do not understand your insistence that we should give this all up and do our "practice"

To that point I believe have missed COMPLETELY my most emphatic point in my conclusions in this Blog. Allow me to re-iterate:

SRCM has failed due to the fixation on individual spiritual attainment as opposed one's duty to participate in the spiritual upliftment of humanity as a whole. There are far too many examples of Abhyasis selfishly fighting for control of the organization or the attention of the Master in order to ACHIEVE something for themSELVES. This reduces ones practice to a selfish endevor at the expense of others. It is the path of egoism, not the path of love.

I contend that spirituality is not about attainment (which feeds ego), but about being. You already are what you need to be. You simply need to be it!

Your Babuji said it well when he said, "It is as simply as turning your head from here to there".

I contend that it is our duty to post these blogs as DANGER signs so that we can all learn from each other's experiences and mistakes. I believe is our duty as a spiritual people to be truthful with others when we see danger ahead.

The danger sign posted herereads like this:

"DANGER: FIXATION ON PERSONAL SPIRITUAL ACHIEVEMENT IS THE PATH OF THE EGO"



Michael

4d-Don said...

Hi Akshat...

Thanks for your response...I pray for you and Kasturi that she is a good person and is not guided by the ego and self-agrandisement.

We who do not know her can't comment on her spiritual status. However to converse, communicate and experience the Divine, and perform our "spiritual" duties to our community, I do not have to leave "here" and go "there" as the Divine is "everywhere", including inside of me and I am "safely tucked inside the ONE (GOD) where I live"... So for me to travel to India and seek God would be like "heresy"...I would go and meet an "interesting" person much like I could go to my neighbour and meet an interesting person.

But I thank you for your invitation and if you remain as a friend and an equal (not a "chosen" or an "elite" or a "Master"), you are also invited to come and meet all the "interesting" and spiritual people in our little acre of "ONE-ness", where the divisions of religions and cults sometimes "invade" and divide us temporarily, but somehow, the ONE that is a "spirit" and not limited in Space or Motion (measured by time), still keeps on "emanating" and filling us here, making our leaving this sacred place un-necessary as this is the place we are "needed" by ALL (Creation), and filled by the ONE (CREATOR)!!

Thank you for your input and your civility. You are very different from the "chari" gang in your tone and your emotional attributes. (so far..lol)

4d-don

Christian said...

No Akshat, I don't feel toxic, I feel nervous in the sense of exasperated.
I have extreme reactions sometimes, but it is not with the intention to hurt.
What I think to be toxic is the statement itself, and I guess Michael gives you a good reply "DANGER: FIXATION ON PERSONAL SPIRITUAL ACHIEVEMENT IS THE PATH OF THE EGO".

My deep whish would be that human beings, when engaging in realizing the divine, try at least to analyse what is spiritual and what is imaginary.
But for that, a deep practical knowledge about the mind must be developped during years through other practices related to psychology.

If abhyasis do not, who else will?
Not the religious, who are simply trapped into the myth, the imaginary, and the doctrin.
just ask to Kasturi what Babuji was saying about spirituality and imaginary, or spirituality and superstition.
think about these matters and consider your own position about all this.
different layers may superimpose, causing confusion.
learn to identify and separate, learn to discriminate.

We have discussed and analysed this issue enough on the blogs.
Spirituality degrades easily and naturally into a belief system as soon as its originator disapears.
A belief system is nothing but a jail for the mind, and for the future generations.

We should not be worried about our spiritual growth, we should be confident and happy.
You will say that I am playing with words, but I remind you that words structure our thoughts, and we must know how to use them correctly if we want to think correctly.

Doing what we have done on the blogs is not taking 24 hours a day, therefore we still have time to practice.
Because Lalaji and after him Babuji did not want people to live outside the familly life, thoughts are naturally prioritized by life itself.
why is your mind so full of fears and so self-centered?
this is not a sign of freedom.

I was impressed by the transmission I felt from the blog about Kasturi.
I do not know if this is related to the stage of the person who wrote it or to something else behind.
I remember also having such an experience with the blog of RK Gupta, but I have no idea of the meaning behind this.
I can just report the experience and think of invisible connections.

I want to add that I am always happy to meet Sisters and Brothers, from whatever sect they are, so long that their mind is free, and so long as they are not trying to trap me with them.
Otherwise, meeting is just impossible, and brotherhood a fake.

Alexis said...

Hi Akshat,
You spoke about Kasturiji, the only saint in Sahaj Marg. I think and hope you well know her, because I have some questions :
- Is she the daughter of Sri M.L. Chaturvedi, Retd. Judge at High Court of Allahabad ?
- Is there any organization around Kasturi ?
- In 1983, after the death of Babuji, did she participate to Working Comittee of SRCM ?
- What sort of relationship did she have with Dr. S.P. Srivastava ? with Umeshchandra Saxena, son of Babuji ? with Dr. K.C. Varadachari and his son Narayana ? with Chariji ?
- Abhyasis from Shajahanpur Ashram are in relation with Kasturi ? with another one ?
- 'bahenji' or 'bhenji', what does it mean ?
Thanks a lot to answer me
Alexis

Akshat said...

Hello Don,

You are right Don, you don't have to leave "here" and go "there".

"Divine is everywhere".
What human needs is the righteous path and when he/she is on the right path they will never feel sorry for it.

You are welcome...Would be really interested to meet you people if I get a chance to.

I hope and pray that you grow spritually and be always with the divine.

Warm Regards
Akshat

Akshat said...

Hello Christian,

I saw your reply at Pandit Ji's blog also and have replied to you there.

Just want to say " SRCM is started by Babuji " and belongs to all the abhyasis who seriousely seek Divine and doesn't belong to person specific.

I really am not sure if really I understand the meaning of "DANGER: FIXATION ON PERSONAL SPIRITUAL ACHIEVEMENT IS THE PATH OF THE EGO" but am inclined to try and show the path which I think is beneficial for them.

I remember reading somewhere that "When we keep simple things simple they are simple, but as soon as we start applying our mind to it they become really complex"

I won't say that you are playing with your words just because I think you might be very clear(abt the meaning) when you use them.


If you are still practising and have faith in Babuji and also in his system which ( not of person specific) is full proof, then be assured that you will reach the goal you are after since so many years.

I am really happy that you felt the transmission from Pandit ji's blog.

I would definitely look forward to meet you and others.

Warm Regards,
Akshat

Anonymous said...

Parmesh you are probably a really nice human being anyway, don't analyze yourself like this your ego is talking. Sahaj Marg will keep asking more from you. There comes a time when you must take your own steps in life and have a mind of your own. There are a lot of good soles in this world.Learn to face your fears, hiding them behind a group will eventually hinder your progress.

Christian said...

Hello guys,

I have put a post on Elodie's blog where I explain why I decide to leave the discussion.

Bye!

Shashwat said...

Those who wish to get more details about SRCM can also refer to my site, www.geocities.com/sha211_211/srcm.html
There i have explained my views about teachings in SRCM and concept of freedom in SRCM, replying to what SRCM has to say, kindly feel free to discuss those views as well and for those who are forced into SRCM but do not have enough knowledge to counter mentally slave people of SRCM can read my observation and for any further help can directly contact me.

Regards
Shashwat

4d-Don said...

What was Ram Chandra's (Babuji) real name?

Hi all...Hi Michael..

This is from a message from Madeleine on the French Blog of Elodie. Madeleine is a 20 year abhyasi who just quit the SRCM(tm) and is speaking out.

I translated with Babelfish...

"On this subject, I highly recommend to those who read English, to read the book by Thomas Dahnhardt, university researcher from the Centre for Islamic Studies of Oxford University, and professor of Hurdu litterature and Islamic Civilization in India at the University of Venice. This book is titled: "Change and continuity in Indian Sufism".

According to Dahnhardt, another little detail that escaped us (if his information is correct) :Babuji was not called Ram Chandra but Madhe Mohan Lal and later took the name of his Master Ram Chandra of Fatehgarh."

"They hid many things from us!"

Fraternal Salutations to all..

Madeleine

PS...Does anyone know of the accuracy of this statement by Madeleine from the Thomas Dahnhardt book? (They (SRCM(tm) would not lie about their names, their lineage, and their status as Master, would they??)

4d-Don

4d-Don said...

Hi Michael and all...

I took this off Elodie’s French Blog and translated it…this is only one of many who are leaving the SRCM in Europe…This person’s name is Madeleine…

Hello from an old ex abhyasi....

I am another ex abhyasi of Sahaj Marg, where I passed more than 20 years of my life, beginning at the time of Babuji. The first years of practice were for me positive and for this reason, I am grateful to Babuji and Chari. Unfortunately, these last years, I have started to be in crisis.I felt very sad and I did not recognized (believe) what I saw and heard, I had impression of choking and well on, I felt guilty during 3 years (I am not up to the mark, I am not good a abhyasi etc...) and finally, after long suffering, I have succeeded in releasing myself from my direction of culpability and be on my way, this, after I sought a long time, and everywhere another way possible which would be appropriate to me, which was not easy, as you will appreciate.

If I write today, it is only to encourage those who would like, but do not find the courage to cross the step towards the fresh air! By experiment, I know that it is hard. It is said to you that you will lose your condition (which condition?), that it is your ego which takes the top, one cannot betray Master like that, one will make him suffer... etc... Surely, one needs a minimum of courage to cross the step and to dare to call in question what one lived all these years, but if one considers all the sadness which one feels, the culpability, the direction of smothering, the impression which one does not go upwards any more but that one is spread out horizontally in the materiality... if there is a TRUE SPIRITUAL RESEARCH, one cannot continue to commit suicide with small fire like that!

At the beginning, in my opinion, the way to the top was open, but today, where is it? Where is the spiritualitè? It is not we (the abhyasis) who changed and who do not have any more a spiritual aspiration, in fact the SRCM has Changed and does not carry out us any more where we wanted to go. AND if the SRCM changed, who changed? Those that manage it, unfortunately! Where is the love? Where is humility? Surely not in the continual requests for money and with the expansions and the financings! But I can assure you, that beyond Sahaj Marg, there are other things! There is life and also Spirituality! And even spiritual purity, the purity which I did not hope for to find any more, it still exists, in some recesses of the sphere, with some discreet and humble Master, who does not make publicity and still lives in the greatest of simplicity.

It seems to me that many abhyasis remains only by fear. If you feel the necessity to leave, DARE! What do you have to lose? Nothing! But everything to gain! Sahaj Marg is not UNIQUE, like someone said to us and re-said! The divine would not be so miserly, and be lavish only inside the SRCM? I also often heard: yes, but there, there is not the transmission! The transmission, (You know I think that Sahaj Marg derives from the Sufism which Lalaji inherited from his Sufi Master (see book published by the SRCM in July 2001 "the complete works of RAM Chandra- Lalaji Maharaj volume II). In Sufi practice, there is the transmission (nothing new (unique) thus!) and the transmission was apparently used at the time of the first stages of the Sufi spiritual practice (see book of Thomas Dahnhardt: "Change and continuity in Indian Sufism). Afterwards, they pass on to another thing. Therefore, the transmission is useful, but until where? And from which level does it emanate? Are there not other more subtle and/or lower forms of transmission too? All is relative!

Babuji said that if a disciple is not convinced that his/her Master can bring him/her to God, she/he has the full right to go towards another Master.

I wish all, all the brothers and sisters who are in a sincere search, good luck!

Madeleine

Taken from Elodie’s Blog and traslated using Babelfish…

http://pourquevivelesahajmarg.blogspot.com/

http://babelfish.altavista.com/

4d-Don said...

Hi Michael and all...

For those interested in finding out the truth on Lalaji's Sufi lineage and and his successors, check out the Lalaji's family blog site.

http://laalaajinilayam.googlepages
.com/home

...and the photos of Chari (very unhappy) with Lalaji's Family, looking like a little boy who got caught with his fingers in the "cookie jar".

Notice that Babuji was not a "preceptor" of Lalaji's, and named himself Lalaji's successor...Much as Chari's controversial "succession"!! It seems that in Spirituality, the "dream" and "communication" beyond the grave is an accepted way of denying the wishes of the Masters as written down in his Will, in the case of Lalaji!!!

http://laalaajinilayam.blogspot.com/

One can confirm this by researching this site on "Naqshbandiyya" Sufism of RK Gupta.

This site mentions the Yogabhyas of Dr Chatterbuy and others of that lineage...

http://www.geocities.com/sufisaints/

Does Spirituality include "moral qualities" such as "honesty"?
What is Sahaj Marg "transmitting" to it's serfs?
What is destroying the "Love, charity and compassion", in the abhysis's family and life, according to Chari, in his speech to Preceptors in Jan. 16-17, 2001??

Research the theology and you will find many "fundamental" flaws. Research the philosophy and you will find many similar flaws that philosophers such as Dr Varadachari, warned about before his death.

The Machievellian "the end justifies the means", does not work in "spirituality". The journey to the GREAT MORALITY cannot be full of "IMMORALITIES"...This is not the "narrow" path to liberation and/or salvation but is the "broad" path to divisions, broken homes and families and eventually, perdition or loss of TIME!!

"You're drifting too far from the shore!!" is a Gospel song.

Turn back before it's too late and you are "brain-cleansed" beyond return and/or are not called the "living dead" but the "dead" or RIP (Rise if Possible),or the "left behind"!!

The truth will set us free.

Freedom is never an ally of Tyranny!!

Rancour is never an ally of Spirituality!

We will win, without the enemy losing!! The enemy will become the "friend"!! As soon as greed and lies are not the standard in the Religious and Spiritual movement!! the enemy, who claims to be "Spiritual" and claims to represent the ONE (What they call God) and give IT attributes, such as MALE and "homosexual intolerant", will become the "friend" and ally" and we will be ONE in the SPIRIT!!

We have the technology...We can do it!!

Make it SO!!! (Jean-Luc Picard, of the Spaceship "Enterprise", STAR TREK!!!

4d-don

Elodie said...

Shashwat,
I'm not really happy with you.
You ask us to add link with your website without saying who you are and what you want, you don't add link from your site to my blog ande you don't answer to my questions.
I recall you that I would like to know where we have to post you our comments (orkut, srcmcultofindia blog ?), where we can read the differents posts (you have many mirror websites or blogs)and it could be better if you say in some words what was your relation with SRCM.
Please tell us a little bit more.
Elodie

Anonymous said...

I think the new set up is brilliant, finally throwing the baby out with the bath water and sending a clear message to those on the frindges of doubt. Only I would suggest mind coercion is the reality here since brainwashing doesn't really exist otherwise it really would be a hopeless waste of time. Therefore the task has to be changing peoples minds back to thier own way of thinking. Another concern is the mental stability of members before joining. Everyone under the right conditions can be seduced. However the manipulation of mentally unstable depressed human beings ESPECIALLY through trained individuals such as therapists has to be MALPRACTICE!!!

Shashwat said...

Elodie,

If you want to post any comments about my webpage that can be done in the guestbook i have provided there (comments can be placed here) for those who want to discuss SRCM are directed to my blog (srcm cult of india) I hope it is now clear, as what i expect where, reason for mirror site is i have experienced huge traffic and as geocities is free so there is restriction to number of views per hour, so when traffic increases user will be directed to mirror sites, that is the only reason for mirror site. To know about me i have placed a link to my personal website, so u can know everything about me.
Now to your last query, i have suffered very deeply due to teachings of SRCM, I have experienced enough pain to declare SRCM is a cult and uses mind control technique's to manipulate people, we all should also know there is no reaction without any action. What i am doing is just a reaction to the action of SRCM. We all are slave to nature and we all must pay for our deeds, hence SRCM Chari etc will also pay for their deeds more souls they make suffer more suffering will be for them. They are not realizing yet as what they are teaching is harming people, it is causing pain to many souls and i hope if they have little understanding of what humans are they will immediately stop and dismantle SRCM, as it is no good, the method they are preaching is very dangerous, without any positive result, if there was ANY scope of benefit, i would not have suggested to stop it, we all understand to experience great pleasure we must risk great pain, but when we know there is no pleasure then why risk pain?

The highest identity of SRCM i.e master i.e chari is not an enlighten person, because if he was so, he cannot declare himself to be of divine essence, and any enlighten person simply cannot contradict any past established truth. if they do they are ignorant, since in SRCM master himself is ignorant therefore SRCM will only cause more and more pain without any good.
They also fail to understand that no-good can be done to anyone, there is absolutely no need to organize functions on his birthday, this is ego manifested in its highest form. where we have ego at the highest level how can there be any sort of bliss, ego and bliss cannot go hand in hand ego will only bring misery, which it is, for those who are involved in SRCM they are fooled to understand that they are not suffering whereas those who's loved one’s are involved are those who understand that not only the infected person is suffering but he/she is causing others also a lot of pain, but the infected person fails to see this as he/she is taught that all is done by master, hence he has no responsibility. This foolishness is what is causing the most pain. All the 3 M's of SRCM are corrupt and harmful, the Mission, takes hard earned money from family causing more pain, Method, anyone indulging in mental sex with other will loose his/her identity and thereby contact with the self, and become more and more week, The Master, in my view the most corrupt and selfish person of the century. Hence SRCM as a whole is harmful dangerous and causes disrupt in an otherwise peaceful and stable society.


Love
Shashwat

4d-Don said...

HI all...

Historical Conclusions of a ex-abhyasi on the SRCM(tm) Sufi past

Wednesday, January 17, 2007

The contribution of Madeleine, a 20 year ex-abhyasis (since 3 years) of SRCM™

Translated by 4d-don using:
Google Translate from Elodie's blog: http://pourquevivelesahajmarg.blogspot.com/

Madeleine says:

During the years of our permanence in the SRCM, and still at the time of
Babuji, some among us knew already about the existence, in the north of India, of 5 or 6 groups of disciples or descendants of disciples of Lalaji, who had gone on their own way, without having recognized Babuji as the successor of Lalaji.

We also knew, from Babuji’s autobiography that somebody had tried to put sticks in his wheels , even to the point of attempting to put an end to his days (on earth).

At that time, we were satisfied with the path which we followed and we were not curious to know more. Moreover, the environment which reigned within the mission, consisted of a significant "self-satisfaction": we were the only ones to benefit from the transmission (!), our Master was of such a level that no other being of that level would be reincarnated again for more than a few thousands of years (!), probably, He was the Special Personality (?), without mentionning the possibility of eventually becoming a preceptor (!).

And thus, these disciples of Lalaji who had not recognized Babuji, which, for us was the single legitimate successor, were seen at best, with commiseration and sufficiency. As Christian would say, we belonged to "stupic arrogant"!

A few years later, especially after 99 and particularly after the centenary of the birth of Babuji, we started to not find anymore what we had always sought, i.e. that we feel that the access road to the Ultimate, towards the Divine One was not open any more, and considering the type of horizontal material expansion that the mission developed, we started to try to include/understand a little more the origins of Sahaj Marg, with an aim of finding another way which could be appropriate for us, hoping that there was still a movement with the same origin, in which spirituality would be still alive.

At the time of this research, one of the first elements which retained our attention was a film (or rather 2 films) of Arnaud Desjardin, filmed in 1973 in Afghanistan and titled: "Sufis of Afghanistan Master and Disciple" and "In the Middle of the Brothers" (Alize Prduction).

Upon seeing these 2 films, we could note that they also used a transmission and that they worked with the same points in the area of the heart as in Sahaj Marg, that they had sittings and the analogy was really obvious.

I wrote to Arnaud Desjardin so as to find out more on these Masters. He answered me that, unfortunately, the majority of them had disappeared, died or became fugitives, with the Soviet invasion.

After which, I went (literally) in search of a book of which I had had some indications and who would have proven what I thought on the Sufi origin of Sahaj Marg. This book is: "Lakshvedhi Genealogy", the genealogical chronology of the saints, before and after Mahatma Ram Chandraji Maharaj de Fatehgarh (Lalaji), in the order of Naqshbandia Mujaddidia, written by B.B Basuk (first edition in Hindi in 1973, third English edition in 1985).
I noted thereafter that Dahnhardt had inserted it in the bibliography of its book.

Here is some information drawn from this book, with the benefit of the doubt, of course, because Indian research and the "exposes" are often not very clear already, only by the simple fact that they often allot to a same person, several different names…:

First point: the Sufi origin the sahaj marg was confirmed there. Basuk declares that in 1984, he had been invited to Madras of April 29 to May 1 for the 85th birthday of Babuji and that he had contacts with abhyasis and preceptors of the mission. Therefore, in the SRCM, one knew him, and some undoubtedly knew of his research!

Another point: With the death of Lalaji, Babuji would have continued to attend very often the satsang of Shri Chaturbhuj Sahaj in Matura and that of Shri Krishna Lal in Sikanderabad, these two being apparently two of the legitimate representatives (successors) of Lalaji (heir). (Krishna Lal would have been named successor of Lalaji in 1921, therefore 10 years before his death) –

Last point: this information, for the first time, put to us in front of the fact, for us difficult to accept, that a Master can have more than one legitimate successor and that that is completely normal and natural. Indeed, with regard to this last point, in the past and still today in these times, it was completely normal that a Master send, before his death, his best disciples, to work each one in a different geographical area. And it is what Lalaji would have done.

Just as it was normal for a disciple to follow several Masters along one’s spiritual journey, Masters being at diffèrent levels, and it was sometimes the same Master who himself sent his disciple to another Master, to carry on his way.

All was very open!

And it is also what Lalaji would have done, beginning as a disciple, while starting with the Sufism and continuing with the practice of Sant Mat. And this without making anyone feel guilty or "to betray" whoever!
Today, all these ramifications can perhaps allow each one of us, to find what is appropriate and best for each one and, if one believes in it, one can think that each one of us is sent where one must go!

Let us recall that if the path that one follows is not the right one, one does not far, even if one often believes that one went far! The problem arises only when one successor declares himself as being the only legitimate successor! To this point, I would like to highlight some "inaccuracies" which were reported by Babuji on the origin of Sahaj Marg and which are still read and believed within the SRCM.

It should be held in mind that, from the death of Lalaji to the foundation of the SRCM and the arrival of the Babuji’s first disciples, more than 10 years passed… one knows that time erases all and makes all to forget…:

- Lalaji would have had a Master and perhaps more than one

– The partly Sufi origins, of the system is, today without any doubt
The writings of Lalaji have not disappeared, as in the story told by the SRCM, in which one tells us that a servant would have sold all the writings of Lalaji, thinking that they were papers to be thrown away. The writings of Lalaji apparently still exist, were written into Urdu, some were translated into English, but they were never made known to us in the SRCM, at least, not until 2001, with the book "The Complete works of RAM Chandra-Lalaji- volume II", but for a short period (considering how it practically disappeared from circulation), also for the fact that it dealt with a teaching quite different from that of Sahaj Marg and from which one can understand that the "so-called" simplification of this teaching is none other than the reduction and the amputation of the teaching of Lalaji.

- The spiritual practice taught by Babuji does not correspond to that taught by Lalaji.

- Lalaji would have named at least 2 successors (heirs)

- Lalaji would not have discovered the central area.
This point is most difficult and to speak about it is not obvious! But, in fact, the concept of the central region was taken again by Lalaji following his contact with Radhasoami (and by reading the radhasoami literature which precedes him, one can have the confirmation of it).

- To these "inaccuracies", one should not miss, to complete the picture, the change of his (Ram Chandra of Shahajanpur) own name to that of his Master.

I finish by giving you again the references in the books which, in my opinion, help to better understand all that, if one wants to go more in depth on certain points:

--- The supplemental works of RAM Chandra - Lalaji- volume II, subsequently published by SRCM with 7000 copies in July 2001 and it seems that this book disappeared from circulation, oddly, there is no trace of it anywhere! It became taboo! The only way of getting it is to get a loan by an abhyasi who is or was subscribed for life and who will have received it systematically at the time. In this book, Lalaji starts from his Sufi experience to lead to his Sant Mat experience, which he largely develops.

--- The book of the researcher Thomas Dahnhardt. : "Exchange and Continuity in Indian Sufism ". You will learn many things there about Lalaji.

--- L'Anurag Sagar. " "The ocean of Love "attributed to Kabir. One understands many things there on the why there are masters of various levels! And which are these levels.

--- Books of Kirpal Singh (one of the Masters beyond Sant Mat): "The Wheel of Life, the Mystery of Death "and many other books on the site: www.ruhanisatsangusa.org, which give an much clearer explanation and deepens that what we may have read in Sahaj Marg, on spirituality.

--- The books of Baba Sawan Singh (another Master of Sant Mat) (if you succeed in finding them): "Philosophy of the Masters". 6 or 7 volumes

---"Sar Bachan" of Soamiji Maharaj. They are difficult to digest, but their reading is worth the pain. They are in English. Of course, they are only books, and they are used to draw us some ideas all-done or prejudiced or the better us to inform, but there always remains the truth that nothing is worth the direct contact with the Masters and a valid practice with their assistance.

Here, I believe that with this letter, I conclude my intervention on the blogs, because frankly, I do not want any more to explorefurther! I spent many years with this research and it seemed to t me right to communicate the fruit of it.

I greet all the brothers and sisters with all my heart.

Very fraternally
Madeleine

Thank you Madeleine for your information which brought us so much lately. Do not leave us completely if it pleases you.
Elodie

4d-Don said...

This is taken from another chat site but should be of interest to all abhyasis of SRCM(tm)!!!This is what they are funding for the next generation!

Value Based Spiritual Education at LMOS, the school managed by the Baal Vatika Educational Foundation, with Chari as the executive director!!(research the local or regional meaning of the words Baal and Vatika as in Vatican)

Hi all...

Why is the Lalaji Memorial OMEGA School called OMEGA?? The LMOS (with the OMEGA) on Google Search brings up "Living Modified OrganismS"...
Is that it?

Here is a story for kids from 5-7 yrs old, from the VBSE curriculum at the LMOS:

Story 3 - Both Arjun and Duryodhan came to Krishna's palace to ask for His help in the Mahabharata war. Seeing Krishna asleep, Arjun stood respectfully at his bedside while Duryodhan sat down arrogantly near Krishna's head. Krishna who was pretending to be asleep got up slowly. He saw Arjun first and then Duryodhan and greeted them. When he found out that both of them had come with the same purpose, he told them that he had decided not to fight. He could only be a charioteer. Did they want Him or his huge army? Arjun had the first choice as Krishna saw him first. Arjun did not hesitate even for a moment. " I want you and only you", he said with total conviction. Duryodhan was quite happy at this 'foolish' request of Arjun. Was he right? Ultimately who won the war?

Notice the questions asked by the "teacher" at the end: "Was he right?" Is "who won the war" the standard that will decide who is right and who is wrong? Is that type of "opportunism" that is a desireable character in "business" and means to "win without regards to "morals" and morality in philosophy, the standard.

Are they teaching that we should all be like that character because he "WON" the war? So if the the US wins the war, we should all be like Americans? If the Germans win the war, we should all be like Germans? If the Muslims become the religion with the largest number of followers, then we should all become "muslims"? Or the Roman Catholics? or the Hindu?

Where is the "value" and the "spirituality" in that "education"??

Thinking and "logic" is preferable to "blind obedience" to that!!!
IS IT NOT?

Anonymous said...

It clearly seems that you have been hurt/offended by some fellow abhyasi(s)and are taking out this grudge on anyone who might be practicing. It just shows the kind of person you are. If the system was not for you, good luck carry on, don't grumble like a child.

From an objective standpoint, you are the only one whining, whereas the group is growing strong. I would recommend going through 'Whispers of the brighter world' written by Babuji from 2000 to 2006.

Just to get a better grip of spirtuality how about reading 'Cosmic Conciousness' by Richard Bruke or " Code name God" by Mani Bhaumik.

Also judge the system by the best canditate(s) it produces, not the ones who are learning and may have a lot of loopholes.

Michael said...

Anonymous,

Not sure which one of us you claim are the only one complaining! Reading this Blog, you can cleary see that there is not just one person, and few are complaining, but simply providing truthful accounts of experiences, and providing support to the many who still seek spirituality after SRCM.


On the other hand, perhaps you never even read this Blog and were simply told about it and asked to comment. Perhaps you will never read this either, but I'll summerize the blog for you:

It is about a spiritual quest. Its about a young man reacting to his empty religious up bringing, seeking spirituality only to find his spiritual community becoming yet another religion. Its about finding spirituality in ones daily life, and discovering spirituality in ones roots. Its about discovering that religious communities have their place in a spiritual quest. Its about balance of power in all things, especially spirituality. Lastly, this Blog is not about complaining, but about sharing the Truth that was kept hidden for nearly 2 decades and learning that one is both very alone, yet not alone. There is a community here, not a single person.

Sadly, I believe you have completely missed the point and have blissfullly ignored the dissention within your organization that has caused at least 2 splinter organizations to be created over the last 20 years, and caused hundreds of people to forsake spirituality all together because of their experiences there.

If you read the comments here you will see dozens, who have left, are ostricized by a practicing spouse, or have severe concerns about the legitimacy of the Master and his Inner Circle. This is the tip of the iceberg. Explore the history of your practice and see the Truth!

Since you are clearly not going to actually read this blog, may I recommend a reading list for you?

"Cutting Through Spiritual Materialism", by Trunkpa

"Truth Eternal" By Ram Chandra (Probably banned by SRCM at this point).

"Daughter of Fire", by Irina Tweedie
(Yet another disciple from Lalaji's legacy)

"Zen and the Birds of Appetite, By Thomas Merton



Michael

4d-Don said...

Hi anonymous...

I don't know where you get your numbers but SRCM is not growing in Europe and we don't have numbers for North America. In France alone, where the people have addressed the issue of cults at the societal and government level, you have lost up to 50% of your members. The information has not reached the broader masses in the rest of the world, as most people who are adversely affected just quit and do not "warn" the others, but that is being adressed, by the "heroes" such as Michael and Christian, and Elodie.

SRCM is growing in Asia where your new "converts" are among the "nationalist" hindus "upper class" and their children, atending your schools, whom you get to meditate at 9 yrs old according to your News Letters and against all the warnings of Babuji and Varadachari as it can damage the "heart"...Babuji had specific warnings.

You just continue along and your "children" will be the next arrogant "imperialists" who will be the soldiers of the next "religious wars" as your "OMEGA" (Why OMEGA?) is preparing them for, with the so-called "Value Based Spiritual Education" that is really the "fundamentalist" hinduism of the Brahmins. What is next for SRCM? To join with the other "fundamentalist" of India and get the "traditional" Manu Laws re-enacted by the Indian government and re-create the same India that lost its spirituality to materialism as the "gaudy" temples plainly show.

SRCM and Lalaji had to regain their own lost spirituality from the Sufi (Islam) who had not lost it to "idolatry" and "materialism" as the Taj Mahal and the mosques clearly show by their "higher geometry" (octave). You owe a debt of gratitude and an apology to the Sufi community for your conduct (hiding the lieneage)...And SRCM will owe an apology for all the families that have been damaged by yet another "religion" supposedly taking the masses to "the Divine"...

Maybe the next time, you will be honest about the lineage of your "spirituality" and not be so "divisive" with your own members!! For the love of GOD, be spiritual!!(as in SPIRIT, not MATERIAL)

It's time to take your head out the sand and see the "writing on the wall"...as a prophet once said..

4d-don..

Bob said...

Hello,

First I want to thank Michael for establishing this site!

My background includes nearly 25 years with Radha Soami Satsang Beas before my introduction to Sahaj Marg 4 or 5 years ago.

While attending a gathering with Chari in California a few years ago, I came across The Complete Works of Ram Chandra Vol. 2. I was completely blown away when I read references to Radha Soami, Sant Mat, and Surat Shabd Yoga.

I wrote Chari for additional information but never received a reply. If anyone can shed some light on this connection, please post.

My letter to Chari is below.

Dear Chariji:

As I mentioned to you in a letter several years ago, I was involved with Radha Soami Satsang Beas for many years prior to my introduction to Sahaj Marg. Radha Soami is part of the Sant Tradition of Northern India (Punjab) that expounds the practice of Surat Shabda Yoga or Yoga of the Sound Current. It is also called Sant Mat and followers are known as Satsangis.

Interestingly, while in Hayward, I came across a book entitled The Complete Works of Ram Chandra (Lalaji Maharaj). What I discovered was his reference to the spiritual path as Sant Mat, with numerous associations to the practice of Surat Shabda Yoga.

For example, Book V in the Complete Works is titled The Philosophy of Santmat. In it, Lalaji makes clear reference to Surat Shabda Yoga, quite similar to what is described in the Radha Soami movement today. Numerous references are also made to the Sound Current (shabda) itself.

Lalaji writes on page 329 and 330, “To hear such sounds (Soundless sound) according to the surat (soul) is called Surat Shabda Yoga. This practice is considered to be the best and supreme.”…”Its practice helps one to ascend the heights of the various points of meditation, and move on towards the ultimate goal. Nothing else is required except this.”

I find this quite interesting given that in Sahaj Marg today, to the best of my knowledge, minimal importance is given to seeing the inner light or hearing the Shabda. It is my understanding that via transmission (pranahuti), an abhyasi can spiritually evolve in the absence of so-called inner experiences, visions, and so forth.

I have an acquaintance in Sahaj Marg, who is also a past member of RS Satsang Beas. We have discussed this topic and come to the following possible conclusions:

1)Lalaji was familiar with and may have initiated people into Shabda Yoga but ultimately modernized the teachings to reflect the spiritual needs of the times. This happened through Babuji several years later.
2)Lalaji would examine people’s inner condition and make recommendations for Shabda Yoga accordingly, thus sending them to shabda gurus as needed.
3)Lalaji taught a method of Shabda Yoga quite unique from what is taught by countless Shabda gurus today.

Any insights or clarity you may have on the above would be greatly appreciated!

Bob

Shashwat said...

Hi,

Your quest for God will lead you to yourself only, all the hypothetical explanation of God are imaginary, there have been certain enlighten people who have really understood what God is, There are only two category of people who join any religious cult, first is those who have suffered very badly by life, they are completely shattered and search for some help from any super divine power whom they feel can help, and get them out of their miserable life, these people end no-where coz their search was not genuine, they were actually searching for peace in their life by running away from life, second category is of those who actually are fulfilled by life, they have achieved everything they wanted and still feel incomplete, coz they missed the very essence of life, then they start searching, even they fail too, coz they were searching for something which was already present, just that they were ignorant, life has infinite dimensions, mind is very powerful, it takes us to various places which we were unaware of and we feel that we are experiencing bliss, somehow. Truth is if we are able to control our thoughts for few minutes we will be able to see the truth we will be face to face with our true nature. All else is myth and illusionary, All these sects and groups and religions they have come up coz they have failed, they have failed to realize the truth that there is no cure to this world, those who have understood this fact know well, and that is why they have told us not to expect anything, in context of SRCM, they expect too much, i was reading one of the recent speech of Chari given at manipakkam people were moving out while he was still present, he got up and started saying that I am transmitting you the divinity, I am doing this and that and while i am still here you are going? i was really shocked that his ego has become so large, he is full of what is called as "Ahamkar". these poor people in SRCM they are running here and there after nothing, without realizing that if they cannot get peace at their home, they will never get peace anywhere, all bliss all love and all pleasure is in contentment, if we are content with whatever we have, and remain happy in all situation's we will ultimately become divine, whatever we do must be done with complete devotion, all these sitting and ashrams etc are just mind game, we feel pain coz we are controlled by mind, we feel pleasure coz we are again controlled by mind. If we can remain happy while helping others and content with whatever we have we are surly close to divine, we don't need a master to do that job for us.

Anonymous said...

What are these blogs really about? What is your main goal? If you want to expose this cult then you have achieved. When abhyasis do come forward it is like the devil and the deep blue sea both sides appear in conflict. A cry for help is not anwered here.However thier are other web sites which are available to members in trouble where maybe they can become more logically informed of the ways cults recruit and secure thier members. This is a systematic procedure, a pattern of cult indoctrination, the reason you joined. If you want to grumble about the history then Chariji has won that is his limmitation not yours. Your work is really important and you have more power than you think, unless you are still under a SPELL.

Anonymous said...

Hi Bob...

I am familiar with Kirpal Sing and his many books as well Baba Sawan Singh (Path of the masters) etc..

You got that right...The shabda that "satsangis" work with is a "system" as opposed to the "cult" (idol) of a personality that is SRCMtm. But in a consumer society, that the Master does everything is more "saleable" and more "controlling" than a "system" and gives people a sense of "belonging" rather that being "alone". Besides that, Kirpal Singh claimed to be the "last of his line" of Masters. Lalaji used "the SOUND" system or Shabda for some of his disciples.

Lalaji used many methods to suit the disciple "personally". Sahaj Marg makes the disciple "adjust" to the "METHOD" and become a copy or"clone" of the Master under the guise of being a "Natural Path". Nature does not do that...The cedar does not have to become the fir to "experience" the Divine. And in the herd, pack, flock, the leader is "readily" replaced by any who dare of the "followers". Nature is more "democratic" than SRCMtm

The experience of the sound (variation of the Greek LOGOS from the times of Pythagoras) also matches the experience of the "light" that many other disciplines teach. The "light" and/or sound are just a "frequency" that can guide one (or on which one can journey) in cyclical "spirals" to the edges of the "physical" Universe or to the "sea of Bliss" in some Teachings. Spirit is then a "rarified" energy or a "higher and lower" frequency for an "expansion" into the larger REALITY. (POV) lol ;-))

Michael is doing a final edit on a multi-language "history" of the Sufism/SRCM synthesis from Lalaji/Huzur and the Sufi lineage past and present, including Irina Tweedie, in California...Hopefully, we will post it on all the blogs as it is a great research paper. We will want comments from the Sufi community and from other "closely linked" disciplines such as Sant Mat and Rhada Soami adherents.

It will be ready this week and will address some of the questions you brought up that SRCMtm does not want to address as they are into "growth" mode much like cancer and other viruses that are challenging our "intelligence" at this time in our evolution...

Safely tucked inside the ONE (God) where we LIVE!!

Talk to you soon...

4d-don

Anonymous said...

Hi Don,

Thanks for your response.

Unfortunately, Guru worship is very prevalent in Radha Soami Satsang Beas, in much the same manner (and if not worse) than in Sahaj Marg.

As having been a student of both systems, I find guru worship a major distraction from a genuine, maturing spiritual life.

When all is said and done, these groups are just human like the rest of all. The only thing, when are they going to admit it?

If you get a chance, check out the Book, The Guru Papers by Alstad and Krammer.

I look forward to reading about the history of SRCM.

Bob

Anonymous said...

Hi Bob...

The first instalment is really a history of Sufism and the historical context...SRCM is sort of a self-appointed (by Babuji) "incidental" in that lineage...other reports will be forthcoming...

We are anxiously awaiting the new book by SP Srivastava who was interim "president" of SRCM when Babuji died and Working Committee debated the successorship. (KC Narayana, son of Dr Varadachari and now of ISRC was also on that committee)... Umesh apparent was accepted as "President" after that and Chari apparently went off and registered the SRCM in California and SMRTI (founded by Dr Varadachari) in Austin, Texas...Michael was a member (preceptor and member of Publishing committee) at that point so his story is a first-hand look at the "history" of SRCM ....

We will see in the book that will be out soon...(apparently)..

Ah! the "intrigues" on the road to "morality"....

Don

4d-don said...

4d-don said...

Here is a comment sent to Alexis from the "history of SRCM/Sufism"...
It is on Elodie's blog http://pourquevivelesahajmarg.blogspot.com/
Translated by Cyril Borg..

The Comment...

Lalaji re-examined and corrected…

Alexis Said…

One abhyasi has just sent me with much kindness 2 diaporamas (slide shows) “made by SRCM®” on Lalaji.

May she of he be thanked for it. I suppose that his/her intention is to complete my knowledge on the life of Lalaji, his teachings and their realization…

They are 2 PowerPoint of more than 50 slides each, summarizing 2 volumes of “Complete works of Lalaji”.

It is thus learned that Lalaji is the founder of Sahaj Marg and the 1st Master of the SRCM (1st double historical lie). He (Lalaji) apparently reaches perfection in 7 months period. No word on Sufism or santmat (lie by omission), but he brings back to humanity the ancient spiritual technique of "yogic transmission", for a long time forgotten (new partial lie). He refines it while making it possible for a man to reach perfection in a life-time, while carrying out an ordinary (householder’s) life.

This practice is unique in the history of spirituality (enormous lie). It considers that the perfection is founded on 3 things: love for the Master, the satsangh with the Master and obedience to the Master. When he dies at 58 years, he apparently did not name his successor: “I leave my representative and he will appear of himself… When the candle is lit, the moths will fly there by themselves.” (surprising, seen the other declarations of Lalaji to his own son, Dr. Chaturbhuj, etc).

Among the rules described for the “sincere satsanghis”, some amusing examples: “As much as possible, avoid the places where one serves alcohol and where one presents entertainment in the form of song and dance. If it is inevitable, then one should assist to it as one goes to the bathroom - by pure need.”. When I think of the spectacles of songs and dance that Chari is offered, I imagine that he assists to with it by pure need… Admittedly there is no alcohol!

Suggestions for expenditures, the factors to be taken into account: “Is a part of ostentation associated there? Does that help or assist your brothers (and sisters), or is this only by pride and fame?” Do Babuji Ashram Memorial, Lalaji Memorial international Omega School, etc comprise no ostentation, pride or fame?

Duties: “Avoid the company of women and children.”

A feature of his/her character of the sender; “The fact is that I undergo such a torture at the house, on which I do not have any control, that I have the desire for fleeing or banging my head against the wall. As soon as I reach my residence, a situation is created where I am in anger without need and in a shameless way (…) Sometimes I break things, I throw things, etc But this anger bursts only with members of my family (…) This occurs most of the time when I return from the court or that I am tired after a heavy work.”

One understands better why he declares that it is necessary to avoid women and children, all things which make the ordinary life quite difficult. Better is it to be a “sanyasin”?… 10:44 AM

10:57 AM

4d-don said...

Accusations and more accusations...

This is letter we were made aware of on another section of the Blog by anonymous poster "B"...

This letter is by the son of Umesh Saxena, grandson of Babuji...

I added some of the comments to his letter also...

This site has it:

http://tmtindia.blogspot.com/2007/01/
justice-should-be-for-all-not-only-
for.html

Navneet said...

We are running a spiritual society, Shri Ram Chandra Mission. It was started by my Grandfather, Shri Ram Chandra ji maharaj of Shahjahanpur. He left his physical body in 1983.

After leaving his physical body One of his disciples came up with a forged nomination which evident from the document itself to a layman with typewriting used twice and even the printed name of socity of emblem are not in aligned to each other as is in case of Printed letter heads. Moreso no where in text has he been nominated as the President of the society Shri Ram Chandra Mission. These are onle some of the startling facts of the document.

There was however a nomination given by the founder in name of my father Sh. Umesh Chandra which was in line with constitution & byelaws of the society then registered way back in 1945. He was accepted as president in 1984 by the Managing Committee of the society.

Law of UP Society Act changed in 1984 to election since then we are following the law and after Sh. Umesh Chadra ji's unnatural death in 2003 his son Navneet Kumar have been elected as the President by the Elected body.

Atrocities of the disciple claiming President ship in 1984 increased ever since I have taken over. he started a parallel society in the same name with its Head Quarters at Chennai.

We are seeking justice ever since 1984. but are not getting the same from all the courts because of reasons below:

He has appointed sitting and ex judges of Allahabad High court in his legal committee, Sitting & Ex IAS officers, Businessman, Foreign Nationals, and Retd. IPS Officers who seemingly are not only influencing the judicial but also Administrative Authorities, who on our face agree that we are talking legal but who either dismiss out petitions or give judgements/orders against us. Many a times if u notice the findings they are in our favour but judgement is not. Moreover he has aides of fund and money from India and abroad too.

He claims himself as Guru but as per the literature of my grandfather there shall be no more Guru other than him. Others shall be his successors and he shall act through the spiritual representative. Moreover even his literature and his last letter clearly states that he has not appointed the Alleged disciple as his successor and that he has nominated his spritual representative in Direct ine of succession which was as per the constitution & Bye law of the society and the act at the time of his physical demise.

Moreso the alleged disciple has also changed the constitution to suit him, but the change fortunately has not been accepted by the Registrar of Societies.

Aides of the said alleged claimant have not only harassed us mentally but also attempted on our lives several times as the alleged disciple had done with his Guru. Which is clearly evident from the notorised last letter of the founder president Shri Ram Chandra ji Maharaj of Shahjahanpur.

He has been misguiding the public at large since over Two decades now. This is being continued due to delayed justice.

Recently last year his aides Ex IPS Officer, Ex IAS Officer and Ex Judicial Officers came in into our Ashram with 150 people and attacked wife of Sh. Umesh Chandra, who is above 60 years of age and Sh. Amresh Kumar the Ashram Incharege who is about 65 years of age in presence of Police security which was provided by then DM & SP of Shahjahanpur. On the plea of the victims being beaten by the crowd also the police did not move a wee bit and people who opposed were beaten and pushed out of Ashram by Police officials. The police and Administration of Shahjahanpur, UP supported them there was a call from Mrs. Umesh Chandra's son to the SP too when the incident was taking place as someone informed her son about the incident on his mobile, who was at Mumbai at that point of time. SP refused to offer help and stated I cannot do anything sorry. and he later stopped picking up his phone.

Both sufferred injuries and they were taken by our advocate who arrived at the incident spot a while later were taken toand went to the Civil Hospital where the Medical report clearly states that they were beaten had bruises and with possibility of internal injury. The victims went to the police station to file FIR they refused to register saying No One in Shahjahanpur will file your FIR. They faxed the FIR to the DM copy to the Chief Secretary of UP and later even to the court. But the FIR is not filed as yet. The case is pending at this point of time too.

There have been incidents of even placing High Court of Allahabad orders in district court even before the hearing of case at the High court took place and the order was released. This was reported with proof to the CJI. CJI has ordered enquiry which also we know would die its unnatural death as other enquiries of the President of India, Vice President of India, The Prime Minister of India has died its unnatural injustice death.

If such a a person claims to be spiritual GURU like personality how humanely is he acting can be visible but no action whatsoever by the Authorities, People at large or even Media is taking place.

We have a feeling that since Media is not getting active even after our regular followups and requests to enter into the issue as a common man cannot even live peacefully in this country with citizens who are responsible for degrading the system of the society and the country.

So where is the justice without media intervention as the justice is in hands of the higher ups and people having contacts in this country.

We have left things to Supreme court today hoping that justice may be given at this Apex court atleast.


Navneet
January 18, 2007 12:17 PM

Anonymous said...

What can you give to people as a representative of Shri Ram Chandraji (your grandfather).
February 10, 2007 12:37 PM

Anonymous said...

Please can you tell me if it is possible to visit Shri Ram Chandra Ashram in Shahjahanpur these days?
Who is looking after it?

I have stayed both there & at Babuji's family house in the past.

Best wishes.
February 11, 2007 10:04 AM
Anonymous said...

P.S.
Are any of Babuji's original publications of his books still available from the Publications Dept. at Shahjahanpur?

If so, how may they be obtained, please?

What has happened to Babuji's family house at Shahjahanpur, please?

Sincerely.
February 11, 2007 10:09 AM

Alexis said...

Hi Navneet,

I'm Alexis mielkarski and I try to understand the REAL HISTORY of Sahaj Marg and SRCM with some other friends like me.

Our blogs are,

- in english : http://4d-don.blogspot.com or http://innercircleofsrcm.blogspot.com

- in french : http://pourquevivelesahajmarg.blogspot.com or http://shriramchandramission.blogspot.com

I think you have some very important informations to speak for all the abhyasis. Could you come on our blogs and speak with us ?

We have a lot of questions...

Regards
Alexis

February 13, 2007 3:20 PM

Anonymous said...

I can honestly say without one shadow of doubt, Charis speeches and all the rest of it are the work of a personality disorder. One pile of lies,rules and nonsense after another. To think anyone could endure listening or reading this bunch of ludicracy for days let alone years is beyond me.I actually believe he could lead his followers into serious mental illness with his fantasies of power and world domination. Remember another guy with the same aspirations. He also went down in the history books as mentally ill.

4d-don said...

Hi anonymous...

I thinkg you're right...The mental illness has already "shown it's head" in the family of the "founder" and the founder himself if one reads his life story, and now the self-appointed "successor". There was a long period of "depression" in Babuji's life and his "communications beyond the grave" with other "spirits" reveal many intrigues around him of "enemies" that are apparently still "within" Sahaj Marg or the MISSION...It ( the Marg) was certainly questionned by the Prof of Philosophy, Dr. Varadachari also.

My wife said to me: "If I knew what I know now, I would not join this group!!" That expresses some mental "turmoil" on the spiritual path... and I sympathize with her that she is that "trapped"...

Oh well, remember the old: Would you rather be Plato or a "contented pig"?? I guess many chose with "religions" such as Sahaj Marg, the "contented pig", ie..not responsible for its own life, thoughts, etc...but a follower, not a "thinker".

Some Computer Science Phd in his thesis said: The reason (some) people are rushing to "fundamentalism" in religion and philosophy, these days, is because the science and techlogy is pushing us to rationalize n...dimensions (more than 3d), and they, the "non-intellectuals" (intuitives?), cannot "think" any further than 3d for themselves. "Fundamentalism" then demonizes (666, Satan) the new science and technology and stops the "thinking process" as all the answers are given by the "Leader", God, the elite, etc... and one just has to "follow" and "obey"...

Abhyasis are not "searcher" for truth but people who have sold out their "God given" logic, families, friends, culture, country, planet, for a "better place" in the "Brighter World"...Another bunch spreading Divisions in the name of a better place on the "clouds" of Heaven.

Good luck to these poor Lost SOULS!! When you give yourself to someone else, you lost, not gained.
The Master ane the Mission are growing and gaining, the Abhyasis are losing their families, friends, countries, Cultures, and planet etc...all stuff that according to the religious elite, is "not important" The elite do not lose though, they "harvest" the wealth from these poor souls.

Talk about a "better world" for those of us who have the misfortune to know these narcissitic, self-serving, souls... We must and we will make a "better world" without them who would "kill to obey"!! And that is another division...Those who would kill and those who won't!!

We know where Sahaj Marg is: They would to "obey", like all religions, not "SPIRIT-uality!!

4d-don

4d-Don said...

Hi all...

Where is the "spirituality" that your donated dollars to SRCM, SMRTI, SMSF going?

Here is a translation from Alexis:

Elodie, in connection with CREST, the SMSF of the United States bought last summer their own centers of retirement, Spurs Ranch Retreat Centre.

Much more amusing is the list of the 967 books that Chari personally wanted to buy to put in the CREST library. Beside the books on religion, philosophy or the psychology which one expected to find there appears also some great classics of literature such as Jack London, Emilie Brontë, Hemingway and Mark Twain, but also The Three Musketeers of Dumas or complete works of Sir Conan Doyle with (of course) Sherlock Holmes. There are also the great classics of science fiction and the fantastic one “1984” of Orwell, the complete works of Tolkien and Isaac Asimov and Dune of Frank Herbert. One also finds there “Napoleon” as well as the “Decline and the Fall of the Roman Empire”; this would be revealing of Chari’s particular taste for the emperors? And finally, the peak of good taste, the best seller of Dan Brown, “Da Vinci Code”… 11:49 AM


4d-don

Anonymous said...

Dear Michael,

Navneet has referred us to www.srcmshahjahanpur.org.in

Sincerely.

Anonymous said...

I,m glad you agree with me Don. Something not right in this mans head. I hope some abhyasis are asking quetions to just where all of this is leading, probably somewhere they ever expected.When the water gets too hot you jump out, don't you?

ray said...

Heartfelt thanks Michael for your intelligent comment and analysis.

I have only recently discovered your site. Though not a devotee myself, my wife and some friends are followers, which often makes things difficult. I have been an observer since Babuji days and despair at what I feel is unthinking cult-like behaviour.

Your brilliantly expressed other postings + many comments are very supportive and helpful. Thank you for your time and effort.

I think your site is of great importance and accessing the wealth of material should be as user-friendly as possible -
is there any way the comments could have dates (as well as times) attached to them? And the site more easily navigated? Maybe a summary of posts with links at the top?

again many thanks

ray

Anonymous said...

Michael,

Thanks for your insightful analysis on the workings of each "clan".

After reading through your material, the bottom line for me is, "Does the behavior of these gurus reflect their 'supposed' spiritual status?" Well, the answer is a clear no.

That pretty much sums it up for me in a nutshell.

Thanks again,

Bob

Michael said...

Ray and Bob,

Thanks for your comments and suggestions. Its comforting to know that this Blog is reaching the very people intended.

Ray, I agree with you about the organization of this Blog. So many comments have been posted that it is a massive task to organize them. It needs to be done, but other things are more of a priority at this time.

Bob, You've summed it up better than I was able to in my hasty post. Thank you, and yes, the real question revolves around the non-spiritual, power grabbing behavior of all those invoved in this mess!


Michael

Anonymous said...

My grandmothers died. My family were asking all kinds of questions after her death. Like forgiveness, god and such like. She seemingly was a bad mother who neglected her children. My father asked me if I believed in god. I said no I don't. Believe in yourself and don't let others tell you you're not good enough. If there is a god he'll make his mind up for himself, do whats in your own heart. People do hurt each other and parents can be particularily cruel, however the love of a parent is the utmost important path for a child. I would prefer my imperfect parents and childhood to being brought up in a regime where there is only one love to a stranger. It can never compare to the complexity of blood bonds and real family life something these children will be safley tucked away from. REALITY.

Alexis said...

Hi Michael,
When you spoke about "clans", you spoke about 2 prefects : Raghavendra Rao and Ramc(h)andra Reddy. Could you say little bit more about them ?
Do you know Shri Jahagirdar ?
Thanks to answer

Michael said...

Alexis,

I did not know Mr. Jahagirdar. Its a completely new name to me. As for Ragavendrara Rao, he was a very senior preceptor. I believe he published one book for SRCM in the pre-Chari days. Both he and his close friend Ramachandra Reddy, seemed extremely humble and sincere in their interactions with Westerners. I have nothing bad to say about either of them. They were kind and supportive to me, especially Ramachandra Reddy.

I can only speculate, but I suspect they were concerned about Chari's impressive impact on the west as a relative newcomer to SRCM. Both these men were impressive in their own right, but with the classic humble Indian guru demeanor. There was no possible way for them to be as effective a marketing tool as Chari for SRCM in the west.

I did not stay in touch with either of these men after their visit to the USA. Both opposed Chari and were affiliated with the Shahjahanpur clan from the beginning. I don't know what happened to them or how long they stayed involved with the opposing Clan.

Chari's inner circle considered Ragavendra Rao as an extremely capable man spiritually. Proportedly, he had achived access to the "Central Region". Rumors were spread that he was using his spiritual powers to hex Chari. But then again, similar rumors of Chari doing the same were being spread by the other side.

Others might have more information on Mr. Rao and Mr. Reddy's involvement with the Umesh Clan after the split. I saw their names on documents generated by the opposing Clan in the early days, but can't confirm whether they were actively involved in the opposition or if their names were being used to gain credibility for the cause.

What I can say is that there were many senior Indian preceptors like them who resented Chari as a newcomer and resented the influence he had on western disciples.

Again, its difficult to tell the sincerity of a person who sits before a group with the authority of a Preceptor. Its so easy to conceal ones real objectives in that environment. My only experience with these two men were in those circumstances and I can only speculate about their motives or sincerity. They in fact could have had the same concerns about Chari that we have today, only 25 years before any of us saw it coming.

Michael

Alexis said...

Thanks for your answer. There is a blog where Jahagirdar and Raghavendra Rao are quoted : http://makamsureshkumar.blogspot.com
If Navneet Kumar read these lines, I'd like he explain a little bit more what happens in Shahjahanpur ashram with Chari's SRCM in spring 2006.
If someone could have a contact with SP Srivastava, i think it could be very interesting to have his testimony about the period of Babuji's succession.

Alexis said...

Last question to Navneet Kumar,
You said the death of your father wasn't natural. Could you tell us a little bit more ?
Thanks

Alexis said...

Michael,
In the discussions with Navneet, someone spoke about the 3 mens who were with Babuji in these travels in occident : Chari, Poray and Hans Gangloff.
do you know this man ? did you hear something about him ?

4d-don said...

Hi all...

Here is a quote from a Speech from Chari in 2005 Titled: "Open Your Heart" (and your wallet for my birthday, one could add)... Notice, the psychology of getting money from people!!

"Open your Heart"
Malampuzha Ashram Foundation Stone Laying Ceremony,
23rd December, 2005, Kerala, India



Then he finds out, you see. “I have spent millions. Thousands of them eat with me every day, you know, caviar and, I don’t know what else, brussel sprouts! I spend lavishly on them. Every day they consume hundred bottles of champagne. But not one of them loves me.” Then he begins to realise that money is a fraud. Everything money buys is a fraud. It is temporary; it has no permanence; it does not last. The only lasting thing is love. Then he thinks of his nurse who has been nursing him patiently through twenty-five years, and she is secretly in love with him. He marries her. But to come to that stage you have to go through a lot of illness, a lot of pain, a lot of suffering, a lot of betrayal. That’s a long way, you know. It can go on life after life.


What? He marries for "love" and it is not an "arranged marriage" by the Guru? Ah! Ah! Ah!....And they swallow that? He mixes his metaphors or "instructions" willy-nilly.

I bet it will work on all the "sheep" who have already accepted him as "Perfect" and call him Master when his own "Society" and the Familiy of the Founder has rejected him as the "successor" in what he calls the commercial "3M's" of Sahaj Marg...

I guess, to use his own allegories and metaphors, his continuous need for "money" such as the request for his "Birthday gift", that makes him a "fraudulent" operator and his birthday request for "$1,000 US" is a three-day Fraudulent operation also, as he is trying to get a few more fraudulent "billions" from his "sheep"...in the name of "love" and God...

I guess that with the "un-thinking", "illogical" philosophy-less Sahaj Marg of Chari, more fraud gets the SRCMtm abhyasis closer to "the big Fraud " in the fraudulent "Brighter World"...NOT!!

You have to laugh b'cause it's not funny....

Those are real people, real lives and real families with real needs, that he is "sucking" and convincing to support him and his nationalist "clan" dreams of power!

Let us hope that at least some western abhyasis will "see the light" and save themselves from this "silver-tongued" and "silver-haired" father figure ("icon")role, that he plays without logic and without rhythm (or rhyme or reason}...Need a metronome Chari?? No just play anything and call it "jazz" or "innovation" from the heart? ... It will fool those who are "ignorant"...I guess one could call it "regressive innovation" in the language of the "invertendo-ed" SRCMtm...(as inverted)

Don..

Michael said...

Alexis,

I remember Hans. He was a very active organizer. I cannot recall whether he remained loyal to Chari or not or which side he was alligned with in Paris in 1982. Sorry I can't be more helpful. It was a long time ago.

Michael

Alexis said...

Michael,
JM from Chari's clan spoke about the first son of Babuji, Prakash, and the grandson Charad.
He said Umeshchandra wasn't candidate for the succession at the beginning, but Prakash. Later, Charad would say his letter was a forgery. And later on, Umeshchandra came for being president.
Did you know these members of Babuji's family ? and other one ?
What do you know about this story of Prakash candidate ?
Thanks

Michael said...

Alexis,

Yes, JM is correct. In the early days there was an initial attempt by Babuji's eldest son to promote his son (Babuji's grandson) as the successor. I know JM personally, he introduced me to SRCM in 1979. There is little reason to question the validity of his statements.

I'm going to stop commenting on this subject at this point because I honestly believe we're giving this entire situation far more attention than it is worth. Babuji's family is merely fighting for control of property they consider their inheritance and birthright.

Chari is the real concern and target, as he has proven far more capable politically, and strategically, than all the opposition, and as a result has been able to seize the most control over the largest concentration of property, and disciples. The key point is how how easily Babuji's entire legacy has been hijacked by opportunists looking for spiritual power, property and money. If one wanted to explore the truth, wouldn't it be more productive to focus on the source of Babuji's foundation of SRCM, and Lalaji's legacy rather then on the clan warfare that resulted from Babuji's efforts? Clearly the root cause for this clan warfare lies there and not in what is happening today between the Umesh and Chari Clans.

The various groups founded from Lalaji's times have not shown the same animosity or vindicitveness towards each other. Only Babuji claimed to be the sole and exclusive successor Lalaji. Only Babuji created an exclusive organization that chose to focus on wealthy westerners. I have found exploring these aspects of SRCM history far more informative since my departure over 15 years ago.

SRCM in reality is a minor organization in the larger scheme of things. Its cult like tendencies worsen with every year of its existence. It is an organziation that has a single Master with no peer, claiming to lead the only valid path to spiritual enlightenment in the world today. Unquestioning obedience to the Master and his Organization is required of all disciples. This formula only results in manipulation and cultism, because, as even Chari has been known to say, "Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely". No cult with these characteristics has ever left a lasting, positive impact on humanity. SRCM will be no different.

As for the stories of poisoning. I know from direct personal experience that poisoning is a common method for suicide and homicide used by Indians, given the very passive aggressive nature of their culture. I don't doubt elements from both clans are using poison to eliminate and threaten their opposition.

I seriously question why we want to continue to give either side the luxury of an audience on this matter. There are far more fullfilling histories to explore than these sordid events of clan warfare. Aren't there sufficient facts revealed to date to show that neither side in this controversy has any credibility?


Michael

Alexis said...

Michael,
I totally agree with you that all factions are sordids. They all made very bad things. That's an evidence !
Why i try to complete this 'history of struggle for power' ? Because i think it's a very good demonstration of what they really are : spiritual groups ? No, they are power groups ! with forgery, poisonings, murders or attemps to murder, etc.
Another important thing is to understand why they made all these sordid events. You spoke very well about evolution of training, Babuji's cult, etc.
I think it could be interesting to know what was the power of Babuji and SRCM in these times (1976-82) ? What was his perspectives ? about power and money ?
If a lot of people were too interesting for presidence, that's because they hoped to have much more power, much more money.
What was the power of Babuji in the world in these times ? of SRCM and Sahaj Marg ?
Chari, Umeshchandra and others were informed of what SRCM could become, and what they could obtain with this organization.
Michael, what could you tell us about the power of this organization and its perspectives at these times (1976-82) ?

Michael said...

Alexis,

The main failing of SRCM is the elimination of any peers to the teacher and propagation of the belief that SRCM provides exclusive access to the highest possible spiritual attainment.

These two things establish an addictive and dangerous spiritual materialism in disciples, who now lust for reaching a higher state of attainment through the unquestioning obedience to the one living Master. Attainment replaces, "being" and "action, and results in a culture of people who are more concerned with their selfish attainment than how they treat others in this world.

Babuji distanced himself from the community that Lalaji established and chose to have no peers. Even Lalaji had peers, his own brother Chachaji for one was considered a spiritual equal and started an entire spiritual lineage his own.

Babuji, by establishing a singular and exclusive path, put into motiion the downward spiral into cultism. Whether he was a powerful, but delusional man, a skilled and manipulative actor, or a simple man easily manipulated by power seekers around him, I cannot say. I did not know him well enough to even speculate, and those who were close to him are so far drawn into his charm and power to examine the situation from the outside.

What are the motivations of those fighting over control of SRCM? What is the power that lures them?

You've done a good job of assessing the financial value of the SRCM (possibly in excess of $200M US?)

Clearly, money and property are part of it. There's another angle. The lifestyle of a spiritual guru is intoxicating. Thousands worship what he represents - an exclusive path to God. The Master is served food, needs little or no money of his own to exist, and travels the world, surrounded by throngs of loving worshipful people to protect and coddle him. Even being guru for as subset of the SRCM population is power itself, and being close to the Guru, and traveling with him, has similar benefits.

Preceptors enjoy the "second hand smoke" from the Guru. They again are respected for what they represent, a direct path to God. Many disciples want to be in their presence. There is a concept that the preceptor can see things that others can't, and is able to transmit godly power to those in their presence. It is impossible to have this position without having ones ego affected.


Within this "Priest Class" is an elite Priest Class called a "Full" Preceptor. A full preceptor is different from a provisional preceptor as they are "brought to the level" where their power cannot be removed by the Master - becoming the "inner-inner circle".

These levels of hierarchy create a longing for achievement within each disciple at every level. Feelings of inadequacy (not being a preceptor, or a full preceptor, or part of the inner circle or the chosen successor) cause the disciple to serve in other ways to become more worthy of the Masters spiritual attention.

SRCM uses the Spiritual Hierarcy to extract service from those who lust to be made a preceptor or feel the need to offset their inadequacy of not being one. This psycological aspect of this cult creates a fertile environment for control and manipulation of the masses. In other words, power!

This culture creates an addictive, cultish mentality. I escaped this cult mindset at a time when aspects of manipulation and control were not that visible from the outside. I looked into my heart, as many have suggested we all do, and realized what I was invovled with was wrong. I left and never looked back. HOWEVER, it takes years to remove the addiction of these cultist beliefs. The younger you are indoctrinated, the more it becomes ingrained in your personality and difficult to change. The danger is worse when indoctrinating very young children. Their sense of boundaries are tampered with as they are taught to trust and love implicitly a stranger and see their parent(s) unquestioned obedience to this stranger.

What you see now in SRCM is a battle between people who have had relationship and trust boundaries altered. No one questions Babuji's intentions, he is infallable in everyone's mind. That is the common thread that binds each Clan. On this foundation, those in charge, fight for control. Each of their flock believe that they are right and will be rewarded for their loyalty to their leadership. Communities are created around each division of this cult which creates its own sense of power, protection and peace. This communal mindset creates many sensations of spiritual purity that help further validate the desire to be on the right side of the battle.

The most dangerous aspect is the meditation practice itself. One is encouraged to meditate on the image of "divine light" in the heart, but are told if they meditate on the image of their master, they will have better results, but are discouraged from doing so. This insures that everyone is meditating on the image of the "Master" in their hearts.

The Cleaning Process, requires dependence on a preceptor and the Master, to have "spiritual impurities" removed. One must surrender to the master to have these impurities removed. All this re-inforces dependencies on the Master and his preceptors. As these different cult Clans establish their own "Spiritual Represenatives" and "Successors", no doubt disciples are spending much of their meditations focusing on the Clan Leader as their direct representative to Babuji, and God...

So there's tremendous wealth and property in the Mission, a lifestyle for the Guru that leave him wanting little, and the power of thousands, spending every idle moment surrendering their thoughts and souls to the living Guru. Is this not sufficient power to attract opportunists and create Clan Warfare?


Michael

4d-Don said...

Hi Michael and all...

This message was just left as a comment on my blog...You, abhyasis are now free to talk from the "heart" that you have been "cleaning" compulsively for months and years...

Now let's hear and see you make peace with your Families, friends, cultures, societies, environment...Express your "spirituality" and stop "dividing" the world...WE NEED UNITE!!!

You are now FREE .... Don't blame or hide behind the Master, the Mission not the Method anymore. You are now "responsible" for yourselves and your actions and your lives...

Spirituality UNITES...Religion divides!!! Who said that?

4d-don...


Anonymous said...

Sahaj Sandesh No.: 2007.14 – Sunday, 18 March, 2007
Archived Sahaj Sandesh Messages: http://www.srcm.org/members/ssandesh/index.jsp

Dear Sister / Brother:

Blogs, wikis and various websites



There has recently been a proliferation of information and views about Shri Ram Chandra Mission (SRCM) and Sahaj Marg distributed through email and the internet. SRCM has always maintained an open and transparent culture which promotes the expression of one’s feelings and ideas – indeed the teachings of our Masters have always encouraged abhyasis to “speak from the heart.” This being said, Abhyasis and interested seekers are to be advised that the official websites of Shri Ram Chandra Mission and the Sahaj Marg Spirituality Foundation are http://www.srcm.org and http://www.sahajmarg.org respectively. While the Mission neither encourages nor discourages any other forums, websites or online media, it is our duty to direct earnest seekers to the official websites listed above. Those who seek clarification on the Mission’s activities may also refer to the following URL: http://www.srcm.org/welcome/srcminfo.jsp

March 18, 2007 8:14:00 PDT AM

Michael said...

Don,

Thanks for the post. I checked out the informational link in this memo and found the following text:

"While there may be those who have experiences or feelings that are not in consonance with the above, the organization is and will always remain true to its core beliefs, and completely transparent in its functioning.

We would hope that earnest spiritual seekers focus their attention on the purity of the practice and the core teachings of the Masters (spiritual guides) of Sahaj Marg, rather than being influenced by reports of individuals who may be at various stages of their own development. "


Michael

Anonymous said...

Thanks 4d Don & Michael for drawing attention to the comments & response by SRCMtm on the debates here, on other blogs & Navneet Kumar's blog on Tell me Truth India.

I am sure that SRCMtm would very much like to think that all that they are now saying about themselves is true. However, the fact that so many disaffected Abhyasis & Preceptors of the Mission have jumped at the opportunity to express some of their experiences & feelings on these blogs shows that, in fact, this has obviously not always been the case. Whether they like it or not members of SRCMtm have given cause for these concerns by their actions & behaviour. Whether they intended it or not this is the result of what they have been doing/saying.
While those concerned may no doubt like to think that everyone has been free to speak their minds etc. & "encouraged to speak from the heart", this may in fact not have been the case. In fact, the prevailing attitudes may instead have led to an atmosphere of stiflement & repression, where abhyasis saw or felt that things were not correct but felt that it was anathema to say so, or to raise any doubts or concerns about what was going on. To my knowledge many good, sincere & excellent Abhyasis & Preceptors have been alienated. Some have even been disgusted by things they saw or heard - this cannot be right.
Hard though it may seem, this debate is, in fact, a very healthy development & if it only forces some people to examine & think twice about some of the ways in which they have been presenting themselves & the Shri Ram Chandra Mission, which it obviously has already done, then it will have been worthwhile.
Navneet's site on Tell Me Truth India's forum is a particularly valuable one from the point of view of freedom of speech & debate as it is unedited. This has already resulted in a lively & interesting exchange of information but has also a more serious effect in that it has become a forum for a certain openness which might otherwise have been lacking.

With all of your work there is at last beginning to be some balance in what has otherwise been a veritable dictatorship in SRCMtm's virtual monopoly & stranglehold of Sahaj Marg. No-one would object to the proliferation of the Shri Ram Chandra Mission worldwide if it did not have this divisionary impact & the effect of alienating other members who should be, and in fact are, part of it. This cannot be right. This has been a case of "might is right". Now other less strident but equally sincere voices are finding a platform/forums to speak, so we should be grateful.
It may result in some improvements.
Yours, Barcelona.

Anonymous said...

Michael - SRCMtm's protestation that it "remains true to its core beliefs" may be what it likes to think. But in fact, amongst other things, it had even made subtle but telling changes to the fundamental practice of Sahaj Marg, even adding unnecessary/unwanted/ complicating/corrosive/corrupting additions to the Practice for Beginners, i.e. instructions for Meditation, Cleaning, Prayer etc.(Some of these have now at least been corrected on the Wilipedia sites)Babuji said that Sahaj Marg is a "spiritual science". As such, surely even small errors/inaccuracies at the start, if not corrected, may lead to much wider aberrations/differences/distances at a later stage. Do these people think that they know better than the Founder of the system himself that they have to re-interpret/translate everything through their own prism? Many bad or wrongful impressions have been given in the way that Shri Ram Chandra (tm) & Sahaj Marg has been presented as to donations, choosing a guru/master etc. These appear to result from a very worldly & materialistic, even cynical attitude. These things should not be said or written even in a joke when referring to people's lives & such serious matters.
I begin to see now how the talk on this & other blogs has arisen, & understand more. There certainly is a case that "Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power tends to corrupt absolutely". (I know you will disagree with me, but in my experience there was nothing of this in Babuji - I think that your impressions have been understandably coloured by your sad later experiences).
I also see the parallel with democracy, in that to date there seems to have grown up a sort of dictatorship, sort of SRCMtm totalitatian state, or a one-party system. This is now, finally, being tempered by an opposition & by a moderating body. It can only be for the good. Yoga, after all, means "balance".
J.

Anonymous said...

Re: SRCMtm's protestation about the "purity of the practice".

In fact, the practice is no longer pure, which is exactly part of the problem.

Others are now trying to correct this.

When people have been used to being unopposed for so long of course they believe that they are right, but this may not necessarily be the case. That others who have hitherto been silent so as not to cause offence do not agree obviously comes as a great surpise to them.

Best, P.J.

4d-Don said...

Hi Barcelona, J and PJ..

Thanks for your kind words and thoughtfull insight...

I can't add anything as I don't disagree with anything that was said.

One thing that comes to mind about our democracy and wether "spiritual" groups can operate in a democracy. In our representative democracy, we sitll have a "time-limited" dictatorship in most countries except those as the US which have an "impeachment" clause and a body address the periodic demands" for impeachment. The only real opposition to the POWER in a democracy has been the "media" and now the "more democratic" but "thorny" blogger... We, the people, finally have a POWER, the INERNET and we can see it here with SRCMtm...The Age of the GOD-KING is finally over and the age of the INFONAUT (Jewish Kaballah archtype) is upon us.

What we really want is to vote on "issues" and not for a "proxy". This applies in spirituality more than in politics where the President of the Prime Minister would not dare claim to "represent" the "divinity" or the ONE!!. Yet, in Spirituality, we have that "autocratic" all powerful MASTER who cannot be opposed without leaving the group. A true "direct democracy" is more needed in the religions/spiritual movement than in politics so as to "balance" that Totalitarian POWER!!

I did not want to leave SRCM but I could not re-enter the "material" world that was represented by Chari, and that I had left as a young man while in a position of POWER to re-enter as a "SERF" to another GOD/KING....

A system such as Raja Yoga does not have that "power structure" and maybe that is what has to be encouraged or "voted on" by the "users" or the "people"...If SRCM has begun as a "spiritual capitalist" structure, I would not nave joined but would have left it exist for those who wanted that particular type of Materialism.

SRCM presented itself as theologically, and philosophically sound and it appeared to be so at first sight or experience. It even attracted philosophers and "thinkers". Then the "businessmen" and the "power addicts" took over... What I call the "PLUTOcrats", to recall the recent "kicking out" or PLUTO, the planet from the solar system.

Just some thoughts for a "change" so that History does not forever keep repeating....I was Catholic, then SRCM. To fight these battles for me is like going back to the 12th and 13th century Europe. I thought we had "neutred" these MALE GODs.... lOL

The ONE is much less "emotional", not gender-based and much more "logical"

You gotta laugh, b'cause it's not funny!! An old Acadian saying!!

Don....

Michael said...

Barcelona, J and P J,

Thanks so much for your input. Since all of you have more recent experiences, your comments mean a lot more than my dated commentary on how far the SRCM(tm) may have drifted from purity of the practice and core teachings.

So welcome to the ranks of those who:

"are at various levels of of their own spiritual development"

- yet choose to formulate their own opinions on the practice and the SRCM organization!

I found the particularl value judgment about dissenters as the most ironic of all the comments in their statement on the website.

Arent we all at various stages of our own development? Who's claiming to be in a position to judge?

Clearly, the official statement is that we are not worthy to have any such dissenting opinions.

Please continue to comment. Your input is valuable and appreciated regardless of how you may be judged by the Inner Circle of SRCM(tm)!


Michael

Anonymous said...

Hi Michael,

When I read about the disputes over succession in Sahaj Marg, rights of property, etc., I am inclined to believe that such fights are no different than various fights that have occurred within the Catholic Church.

Going back to the 4th century, one doesn't have to look hard at the battles over doctrine (debate over the nature of Jesus's divinity) and control of the emerging "official church" that lead to the Council of Nicea plus the directive to destroy all Gnostic texts.

Now, we have the latest sex scandals and some recent cases of monetary theft by a few priests in Florida. Secrecy seems to be the central theme in both.

I guess what I'm trying to get at in all this is that when spirituality becomes "organized", plus fixed in concepts, then the ultimate effort of the church hierarchy is to preserve its authority over and above the interest of the people. And, they will do whatever it takes to maintain that control, be it through out-dated modes or directives on birth control, doctrine, fear of hell, etc.

Sure, religion has produced some outstanding individuals such as Ghandi, Mother Teresa, the Dali Lama, Martin Luther King, etc.
Yet, IMO, these people aren't products of their religion but rather products of who they are as individuals.

I tend to believe (although I may be way off here) that they would have found a way to serve mankind with or without the religion they were associated with. Their religious affiliations allowed them to have the visibility they received.

I agree with the narcissitic tendencies associated with eastern guru paths. The Radha Soami movement and Sahaj Marg are both included here. Plus, when a human teacher is given divine status, trouble follows.

IMO, a spiritual practice of any sort, be it Sahaj Marg meditation or Christian Centering or Contemplative prayer needs to be grounded in service to others or else it can become too self involved.

BTW, just curious, what brought you back to Catholicism after SM? I was raised Catholic and go to Mass occassionally when visiting family.

Nonetheless, I still have have strong resistance to the heavy patriarchal authoritian trip in the Church. Plus, I'm not a fan of church doctrine. I find the Nicene Creed hard to swallow.

Have you heard of the Ecumenical Catholic Community? It's the Church without all the baggage of the Roman hierarchy.

Bob

Michael said...

Bob,

I agree with you about the organized Church. I feel my witnessing of the "cultification" of SRCM was a historical opportunity to see just how a few simple principles can be corrupted by people who want to control the masses who embrace those principles.

Indeed the Catholic Church throughout history has done what it could to eliminate its mystical roots and manipulate the masses, yet, people like Thomas Merton, Mother Theresa, et., al are allowed to exist. I agree with you, they would have found some way to be who they were.

My involvement with the Catholic Church has more to do with community than the hierarcy or the belief system. I am allowed to be involved, although I'm certain if I became involved in the hierarchy, I would have a similar end as to what I experienced in the SRCM hierearchy. Institutions do not tolerate free thinking or moral principles that go against those in power.

The Nicene Creed was written by committee a few hundred years ago. Just as many of the other traditions and beliefs that the Catholic Church propogates that were created long after Jesus had departed by committees conspiring to manipulate and control.

Yet, Jesus' message is simple. Love, compassion, and charity. He also made it clear that we are not in a position to judge other humans. This is an important concept that literaly every sect of Christianity looses as it becomes an organized institution and embarks on a path of judgement of anyone they deem "unworthy".

I indeed see many parallels as you have pointed out between the Catholic Institution's corruption and SRCM. I would however find it hard to be who I am within the SRCM , yet I am tolerated within the Catholic Community I am involved with and find opportunities to serve the community in a charitable fashion. Whether I remain or not depends on how the community evolves and how my belief in spirituality and mysticism is tolerated in the long run. Regardless, I will continue on my path.

I have heard of the Ecumenical Catholic Community, but haven't studied it extensively. Thanks for mentioning it to me. I will take a closer look.


Thanks for your post.


Michael

Anonymous said...

Most members of srcm joined through curiousity and a bit of rebellion which has led to a path of unimaginable and endless difficulties. Those precise qualities in revese would produce an outcome of unimaginable difficulties towards the very people who abandon all morals. To fuck around with a persons psycological well being. For what? Money. Anyone involved with an abyasis at any level should lead members to these blogs and as a curious rebellious nature does, it won't resist a little look at the other side of a good debate. Human nature never changes, rest assured, what pulls you in will pull you out. Mental stimulation does not reside in srcm.It resides in open debate and dicussion. You ex members are proving this to be true. You got bored and it,s not surprising. Chari is very boring that will be his downfall. He looks and sounds like a puppet. The money puppet, thats what I call him.

Anonymous said...

The works behind positive liberty and negative liberty are here. Someone is imposing liberty in a way that is classed as dictatorship the other is saying rules do not imply . Both need to understand balance is required. The cycle will go round again unless something changes.The change has to be on a communication ground with both parties. This will not happen in srcm as they are invisible to any kind of dicussion. Therefore they have climbed out of civil talks and civil life.

Anonymous said...

Micheal concentrate on srcm. The rest will undo itself. Clan warfare is not important this cult is destroying relationships and intelligent people. You just happened to be saved by your own logical thinking as you came closer to the truth. Otherwise you may still be an abyasis. Could you tell me what happened to your group after you left? Did you tell your student what happened? You have much more to say in regards to your involement at such a high level. Did you recruit in the way that is happening now? If so how do you now feel about it? I know its difficult but it may help others who are out thier doing Charis work. There is no shame in making mistakes but an ex perceptor will have no credibility unless he admits to the wrong doing he has done. There are no cloaks to hide behind anymore. You are forgiven as you forgive yourself rightly so. No more soft talk Micheal due to guilt it's over now and you have a job to do.

Michael said...

Anonymous,

My commentary on Clan warfare is in part due to repeated requests from many who read this Blog to comment on the events based on information that I could provide. I also wanted to re-emphasize what the organization has become. I believe we should determine the credibility of organziations by the fruits of their labors and this is the only reason address such issues as these accusations, court challegnes etc.. It is important only because people in charge of each Clan seem to put so much value on the Organization, which indicates clearly that the focus of the leadership is on property, power, the SRCM moniker, etc.. If spirituality was the primary focuse, one would think these things would not matter. - But, you are correct, it is a distraction, and I agree that it is time to put it aside. Blog activity on this subject of late indicates that others have put it aside as well.

As for my involvement as a Preceptor, I trained people who came on their own accord by word of mouth and personal interest, and did not actively recruit. I did feel the pressure from Chari that I needed to grow the groups numbers and was being judged on this metric and was never comfortable with this.

I also participated in the technique all Preceptors must use, that is to present a simple meditation that had few requirements other than willingness to try it. I avoided revealing the more "cultish" aspects of SRCM until the person seemed "ready" to know more. I learned to be sensitive to feelings of doubt in a person, and would actively intervene when I knew they were at their pinnacle of doubt, to re-enforce their focus on their experiences in meditation rather than on their doubts about Chari, the organziation, and behaviors of the Inner Circle or members fo the local group I was part of.

I have no shame of guilt! I have consistently stated that I cannot tell anyone to join, stay or leave the SRCM from the time I was a preceptor to now. My purpose for this blog is to provide truthfull information and analysis for people to better make their own informed choices. I was too close to the organization to do this when I left and it has taken more than a decade to look at it with any sense of objectivity. Even now, I struggle with being objective in my analysis and try hard to only provide information that I have direct experience to confirm.

Thanks for your concern and support. I do feel I've done enough here. There is little more to say other than to respond to sincere commentary. I don't feel I am on a quest to expose SRCM, but only need to document what I have learned.

Michael

Michael said...

Anonymous,

I neglected to answer your question about what happend to my group when I left. In thinking about it, you bring up a very relevant question that I have not really addressed in this blog.

I am one of FOUR preceptors that chose to leave SRCM in my group during the late 1980s early 1990s. Two had already left before me and one left after my departure, in part due to how I was treated by the individuals in positions of power in the organization. In every case these Preceptors left the organizaiton and resigned as Preceptors. None chose to associate with another SRCM spinter group as far as I know.

I cannot comment for certain, but my sense is that this was a significantly large number of preceptors to leave the organization from one center in the US during that period in time. I have lost touch with all but one of these individuals.

Michael

Anita said...

I am fairly new to Sahaj Marg and have many questions that I am finding answers in your blogs. I find this information very interesting since the very questions I have about the systems most of you have had close and "longer" experience with - I look forward to learning more and will comment when and if the opportunity arises. thank you for speaking up and giving your experiences to those of us who are new comers...

Rashmi..... said...

Pity......
Real Pity...u r so vry frustated its visible...dear its all bcos u hv left spirituality. Therefore stop wasting ur time posting such useless posts full of emotions n start working on urself. Gv time to urself dear, u actually need rest !!!

Michael said...

Rashmi,

You assume too much my dear, yet know so little about me.

.. But then again, I am not qualified to have an opinion, because, as your Master has told you, I am one of the "enemies of spirituality".

So my question is: what is an enemy of spirituality? Is it one who strives to seek the truth and think for them self, or one who has found spirituality outside the bounds of the SRCM religion - and therefore cannot possibly be spiritually inspired?

I suggest you explore what the founder of your organization said about the importance of developing discrimination in spirituality. Then ask yourself, why those who choose to remain on the path are now being called enemies of spirituality?

As for your concerns, my spirit is quite rested and happy having embraced "being" and accepted its sovereignty in the eyes of the creator.

Michael

Anonymous said...

Michael..

Your said in a recent post:

None chose to associate with another SRCM spinter group as far as I know.


In light of the last "spiritual" comment by Rashmi, I suggest that you correct the typo in the word "spinter".

It should read: "SPHINCTER group" so as to reflect more accurately Rashmi's comments and those of other abhyasis of the Chari clan.

SRCM(California) are still focussed on "CHILDREN" and are even un-willing to add the Cautionary age LIMIT of 18 yrs old, given by Babuji, the Founder of Sahaj Marg, in their WIKI article.

We know their true NATURE by their own WORDS and ACTIONS.

lol ;-))

4d-don