Monday, June 19, 2006

IntroductionOver 20 years ago when I was young and impressionable, I decided to react against my protestant upbringing and explore eastern thought and meditation pracitces. Living in the northeast, there were ample choices from the Tibetan Buddist temple down the street to the Vipasana Meditation Center out in Western Massachusetts. I sought something more personal, and discovered a rag tag group of people in the US who were learning a reformed version of Raj Yoga that had somehow had combined Sufism with Yoga to create a meditative, spiritual practice. The organziation was called the Shri Ram Chandra Mission. The method of meditation they practiced was called Sahaj Marg, which means natural path.

I traveled to India to meet Ram Chandra, or Babuji as they called him. He was an aging retired bank clerk with an impressive presence. He still traveled to the west occasionally, but within a few years he passed away. One character who dominated in the organization was Parthasarathi Rajagopalachari, kindly referred to as Chari. This man was an imposing westernized, cigarette smoking Indian who ran a mill in India. He had the financial freedom and drive to attend most of Ram Chandra international travels.

When Babjuji passed, Chari surfaced as his hand picked successor. This caused great controversy in India and parts of Europe, as many were offended by his strong and apparently arrogant personality and aggressive approach to running a spiritual organization. For Americans, it was normal, so many of us just accepted this behavior as status quo.

This story is about my hasty indoctrination into Chari's inner circle and just as hasty removal. The lessons learned from human behavior around people and positions of power and influence has guided my life for more than a decade of experience. I attempt to explain in this story the evolution of my thinking starting from this experience of over 15 years ago to present day.

The other objective of this blog is for those who currently belong to this organization, which has evolved into a large international organization that hungrily buys real estate like castles in Europe and entire neighborhoods in India. Those who choose to leave the organization are confronted with subtle and not so subtle threats of great spiritual destitude and abandonment. While I have no intention to convince anyone to leave, I do want to let those who choose to leave, that life on the other side is fine and ones spiritual quest, what ever form it takes when one leaves such an organization, does indeed continue.

45 comments:

Christian said...

PS: 4d-Don, I have posted on the blog of Elodie a comment about the discussion you have with Clark Powell on wikipedia.

Please, bring back the discussions on the blogs whenever possible, the information on wikipedia is not secure.

And I resay it: an encyclopedia is not a place for discussions.

Christian

Alexis said...

Hello Michael,
Christian or you, I don't remember speak about ashrams in India, but also districts totally occupied by abhyasis. I think about "Garden of hearts" near the Babuji Memorial Ashram, and perhaps some others.
I think that it could be interesting to look at what occurs in these districts. In France, we have seen the strategy of SRCM with Augerans which tried to handle the local elections to arrive to its ends.
Thanks to answer me
Alexis

Michael said...

Alexis,

I can't speak to this as I left early in the development of Ashrams in the west. Agerans and Atlanta, US were the two in existence at the time of my departure. I do know that there was concern in Atlanta about getting credibility with the locals. The perception with the locals was that SRCM was a cult, and efforts were being made to change this somehow. Unfortunately SRCM is a cult, so changing the perception from the truth to something else is a major public relations challenge.

Recent efforts by SRCM to get NGO status, and very public but trivial donations to tsumami victims are logical steps to take to make the world community believe that it's not a cult.

Michael

Christian said...

Yes, manipulation, and manipulation only.

Have you noticed the absence of reaction of Chari to my invitation to put some links on the webpages of the SRCM and the Sahaj Marg, towards the discussions on our blogs?

Why not to officialize these discussions? After all, these are good questions we are asking, isn't it?

Of course, you perfectly know why...

An honnest master.

Christian

Michael said...

Christian,

Acknowledgement of dissenting ideas in an organization that requires unquestioning obedience is tantamount to allowing its members to question.

We therefore will be treated like unwanted thoughts in meditation and will be ignored by those who choose not to question.

Organizations that demand un-earned trust of its members can only do so through fear and preying on its members weaknesses. This is not a foundation based on strength.

Personally, I am not doing this to change those who choose not to question. God bless them for being happy with their choices. I only expect our efforts to be useful to those who choose to question in an effort to strengthen their faith by testing it against dissenting ideas.

Any system that does not allow itself to be tested and shows an unwillingness to change will ultimately fail, so we need only to address our ideas to those who can change and are willing to question. Nature will take care of the rest.


Michael

Christian said...

Hi Michael,

Thank you for your message.

Have you considered the possibility of a social success instead of a failure? I predict to the SRCM a religious future, which is almost there... It would be a true success, wouldn't it? (but just forget the initial goal of the founder).

I am not doing all this to make those who believe not to believe or believe something else. Actually, I was tapping the head once more to show to everybody that the guy is dishonnest.

He wants to mask things instead of just accepting the questions, which will come again and again, and try to help people to get answers. That would be the reaction of someone honnest, or of a courageous lion, able to face the consequences of his acts. Here, obviously we find no lion at all.

Therefore, as Monique says, the only lions we can find in the SRCM are the statues of Mannappakkam.

We probably guessed well in our discussions, and put in the blogs all is needed.

Personnally, if I was exposed like that, I would just expose myself more to get strenghtened. I just hope we will get a feedback through messages addressed to the sheeps. I am just craving to analyse these bullshits.

Christian

Michael said...

Christian,

Even if SRCM succeeds as a Religion (and therefore fails as a spiritual institution), it cannot survive without standing up to social criticism. Religions that refuse social criticism only surive while a single charismatic person is in power. When the leader dies, the organization dies with him or adapts in order to be accepted in the culture it applies to.

Clearly under Chari's guidance, dissent is ignored and questioning is forbidden. As long has he maintains control over his disciples nothing will change.

Three scenarios exist for SRCM:

1. It returns to a light structure to promote a simple meditation practice. (Unlikely)

2. It falls apart after the death of Chari.

3. It becomes a religion and fails as a spiritual organization.

I agree with you that #3 above is a likely scenario, but It cannot happen without SRCM opening itself up to dissenting thought. This won't happen while Chari is in charge.

Christian said...

Yes.

1/ is unlikely.
2/ will depend upon the successor. I do not know much about him. I met him once, but I don't even remembered (someone reminded me). All I heard is that he has no personality. He is just one sheep after Chari, doing everything he orders. That is the picture I got from what people say. So, it is very unprobable that the guy has the charism to be a central point of focus as Chari is, but the institution now no longer needs a man. It has its own life and inertia, its own myths.
Therefore the 3rd possibility is probable.

But I don't understand why the SRCM must open to criticism to succeed as a religion. Religions are not democracies. A myth is built by an inner circle, and imposed by all means to all.

Maybe you could explain what you think more clearly, I donot follow you.

Bye !

Michael said...

Christian,

You may be correct that SRCM can sustain itself just as it is structured as a religion for quite some time.

My point is that without a charismatic leader it will be difficult for SRCM to attract new members with a requirement that they must be obedient without question or dissent. It will be difficult to gain trust of new members if they can't question and establish that SRCM is an organization to be obedient to. The quality of people this will attract will not establish a credible long standing organization.

I could be wrong about this, but I don't see SRCM standing the test of time on it's current path. It survives only if a credible Master figure is there to control the masses. The organization as it stands doesn't appear to be able to produce another such person to continue the lineage, and therefore it becomes a religion where the Masters of the past are worshiped.



Michael

Christian said...

A living charismatic leader is not needed, a myth is enough. That's religion, that's all about the special personnality. The myth is already there.

What we did was some noise, nothing more.

Anonymous said...

Michael, Christian

I appreciate your efforts and time you have put to share your experiences.
At age 17 (1987) i had strong desire to understand the meaning and purpose of life. Studied Vivekananda, and started meditating on my own. I came across 'Reality at Dawn'. I was impressed and decided to meet Babuji.(I am an indian living in India). I met a local preceptor Mr.M. After couple of meetings he said "I know what you are looking for, I request you to join our mission. Give me six months of time. Do what i say for six month. At the end we will sit on same platform. If you feel i have wasted your time, your free to give me any abuses you like".
I was touched by the humility and openness. I told him, i would not question for one year.

Later during sittting and talks i realized, Babuji had passed in 1983. I went to Shahjanpur for 'Lalaji's Birthday celebration', the same year. I was already feeling the difference in my condition/experience the grace at Babuji's Samadhi and his house. As i got involved i learnt that there is some issue going on with Babuji's Sucessor. Mr.M told me that Babuji left none. We have a working president Dr.S.P.Srivastava.
I used to meet my preceptor almost three times a week. During talk, i understood that Chari is claiming the sucessorship and came to know about all the legal issues in India too. He mentioned to me that, while Babuji's body was still burning at Shahjanpur, Chari had the paper circulated that he is nominated as the president of mission. Chari was general secretary of the mission till 1980(?), he was removed from all postions after that. Chari was the only person appointed by Babuji to make new preceptors. My preceptor was made a preceptor by Chari!.
But he refused to accept chari as the representative. The personality he described to me about chari and what i read from your blogs are identical!

Infact, Chari send out a letter to my preceptor, that his preceptorship is cancelled, and his powers are revoked. He showed that letter to me when i went for a sitting to his home. Asked me to sit for a sitting and tell him how true it is. I felt no difference in the sitting, it was still the same grace i have been receiving.

Unfortunatly, my preceptor left us in 1993. Babuji that i know, SahajMarg i know, the grace i feel is all due to his efforts. In my very close association with him for six plus years, I have never, not even once, seen him lose his cool or a change in the tone or pitch of his voice. I was like his son, so there nothing hidden from me or as a matter of fact anyone. There was no 'inner circle'.

I had developed good relation with preceptors of neighboring cities too by that time. And i saw very similar personalities. None of them accepted Chari as the successor though.

Since they wanted to run the Mission, they met with the president S.P.Srivastava and decided on ways to make new preceptor and made new one for my city. I took regular sitting from him and felt similar grace too.

I have also heard from my preceptor that Andre Porey was a strong contender for the successorship. Babuji had more liking for him, but Lalaji disapproved him, since Lalaji felt that Andrey Pore or people around him are not introvert and would utilize the power for material purpose. I recollect this as i read your post on people dressed in black showing up for meditation.

As far as i know, my preceptor told me that till the end Babuji was always saying that i did not find one to nominate.


The center was working fine, but we got a letter now from Umeshchandra saxena that he is the sucessor representative. We all got copies of the letter that Babuji Maharaj wrote to him on mission letter head with Babuji's Signature.

I have seen the letter that Umeshchandra produced and the one that chari has produced. I still have copies of both. I rejected the copy chari produced simply by reading its content. Babuji, as i have known him from my preceptor, does nothing without mentioning his guru Lalaji Maharaj. A successor nomination letter without the name of Lalaji Maharaj is 'impossible'.

The letter that umeshchandra produced seemed more in line with Babuji's style. "By the grace of God and Lalaji Maharaj..."

I must mention here, my preceptor told me that when Babuji used to travel west, he used to leave few blank signed papers on mission letterhead for administrative reasons. Since he worked in court, he was very perticular and always checked back on the papers when he came back. In one of his last trips, he saw three blank signed letters were missing. He registered a complain at local police station for records.

Since one of the senior preceptor (he was one of the few, who had soul connection with Babuji-initiation) in neighbouring city, accepted that letter, we all accepted it.
I took sitting from umeshchandra when he came to my city. The sitting reminded me of the condition i felt, at Babuji's Samadhi and Babuji's house. Tremendous grace. But i was very perplexed with the petty talk and other behaviour of Umeshchandra. I question this to the Senior preceptor-whom we were relying on.

He agreed with my observation, asked me to watch and not react. I kept did not question much.

Umeshchandra has accused Chari of 'poisioning' Babuji Maharaj in court papers! He said that something was done to Babuji in his trip to west. I recollect this when i read michael's post of Babuji falling down.




Umeshchandra, later asked me to come and stay at his house near Delhi. I went there for four days, and he made me a preceptor. He seemed sincere in trying to run the mission as Babuji intended. I saw all the menuscripts that Babuji wrote while he as getting dictations from Lalaji Maharaj, Lord Krishna, Swami Vivekanada, Lord Jesus Christ, Lord Buddha etc. (there is a autobiography published from it, not many people has that copy)

Later I came to US on work (1996). Having made preceptor and US secretary of the Mission, i tried to see if i can find some good abhyasis. I tried to contact old abhyasis's from a list i got from Umeshchandra. I even attended a sitting conducted by a local preceptor made by Chari. I did not divulge my identity- said i am an abhyasi from India. I noticed that there were no pictures of Babuji Maharaj or Lalaji Maharaj in the center. There was a picture of Chari. I did not find any grace in that sunday group sitting.(my sensitivity is very good to surrounding, i can catch good and bad vibrations, thoughts etc.)
After the sitting a book was being read written by Chari. I never went there again or talked with the preceptor.

I created a website 'sahajmarg.org'. Put some basics of Babuji's teaching and the issue of sucessor representative. I scanned the court papers, Chari had presented in the court as successor representative and the one Umeshchandra presented.

This started a legal battle here in US. They(Chari's zonal secretary) contacted the domain registrar and disputed the domain. The issue went to arbitration. I worked with Umeshchandra, and presented the response to the arbitration. The decision came in our favour that we can keep the domain name. I was delighted, and so were people in india, this was probably the first time, we had won something.
This did not last long, as Chari, approched the federal court, virginia to dispute the outcome. I too hired an attorney to fight the case. My financial power and other means were extremly limited. There is nobody here that can support me in this issue. It was a drag on me personally and finacially.

When, Chari(zonal seceratary) realized, i am fighting it out, they hired one of the biggest law firm in US to fight the case (100K + would be their fees)

In 1999, I went to india to attend Babuji's centenary celebration in Shahjahanpur. I saw obvious change in Umeshchandra at that time. He did not have any Job or financial backing. He had started depending on the Mission to support himself. I did not have any problem with it, since he was doing a full time job as the president. But i saw, that the attitude was to get more money in the mission, so that he and his family can use more- support a lifestyle.

I saw politicians invited at the celebrations on the stage. They are bad everywhere, but in india its - i don't have words here.

I saw i was being used for some publicity. There were fears for Umeshchandra's life due this dispute and he was carrying a revolver in his pocket at shahjahanpur ashram.

I was sad. I realized Umeshchandra is not the representative. I discussed with the senior preceptor on whose word we had accepted him as president. He used to manage all the accounts for the ashram. He acknowledged, grave money mismangement in the mission.

I came back to US, very sad. I still had to deal with the court case, since Chari's attorney refused to accept Shri RamChandra Mission, Shahjanpur, India as an identity and was personally dragging me in the case for violating his trademarks.

My attorney, advised me to backoff, He told me he does not have means to fight the biggest law firm in US, and even if we won, they can always challenge the decision and go to supreme court and drag this for a long time. I did not have the money, or power and now no faith in Umeshchandra.

I signed the papers that i have nothing to do with the SRCM, nor will my kids! have anything to do with it.

My heart cried...still does.

Anonymous said...

Let me add one more...
There is a CD/cassette available of Babuji's talks with Danish abhyasis (1974?) The western abhyasis are impressed with Chari and inquirying about Kasturi and Chari to Babuji. A lady asks Babuji, "is Chari a saint?", Babuji gives some vague answer, but she repeats the questions. Babuji answers "Chari is Bachelors of Science"!!!

These are Masters own words, recorded, published even by Chari's organization.

Michael said...

Dear Brother,

Thank you so much for taking the time to write this. Your story is astonishingly similar to mine! Having met one of Lalaji's last living disciples, I am convinced that there was no desire on Lalaji's behalf to start an organization, or have successors.

I sincerely believe this whole SRCM was Babuji's creation, not Lalaji's, and it has created a life of its own that has nothing to do with the spiritual advancement of humanity.

To this day I don't understand the need for yet another spritual organization that will untimately degrade to another organized religion (if it hasn't already).

I have to say, when I met Umesh back in 1980, he did not seem very active spiritually.

Given my training as a preceptor, I know quite well how easy it is to present a facade of holiness around oneself. Umesh and Chari have done this. This facade conceals real objectives, desires and intentions.

Privately, Chari complained constantly about his disciples, their whining and foolishness. I saw people he kept close to him keeping people away from Chari when he got into that kind of mood, Yet publically, he presented a Masterly Facade.

When it all comes down to it, I believe that SRCM as an organization (either the Shajahanpur or Mumbai versions of it), does little to advance how its disciples interact in this life, and instead have them fixated on serving an organization and Master so that they can advance in the Brighter World.

This now includes aggressive legal action against opposing groups and detractors. Rumor has it, that there have been "inner circle" discussions about our blogs and a US attorney has been asked to look into how to shut us down. Of course, in the US free speech laws prohibit the expression of personal opinions. However, if this is indeed true, it is yet another sad fact of just how self centered and defensive this organization has become!

I share your sadness. Feel free to keep in touch with us.


Michael

Anonymous said...

Michael,

The organization SRCM was created with Lalaji's approval and wishes. Babuji had lost his ego-individuality. The Autobiography i mention which contains numerous day to day events in intercummunication form says so. Infact the dictations give details that there was a big issue of successor representative after Lalaji passed away. It is in 1944, Lalaji's birthday celebration Babuji was declared as his sucessor by Ishwar Sahai (?). Lalaji, Lord Krishna, Swami vivekananda and many more had left the brighter world and were present to take care of Babuji. Lalaji Maharaj, Swami Vivekanada and Lord Krishna were his constant companions. This was printed in India around 1989. 3000 copies. From your response i am assuming you have not read it. I have read those intercommunication papers written by babuji originally in Urdu, all dictations from swami Vivekananda were in english. These were translated by Dr.S.P.Srivatava. That book is my 'Gita'. There is so much information in there, i wish more people could read it.

Michael said...

My Dear Friend,

Nothing of what you write can be confirmed. All comes from Babuji's dreams and creations in his mind. Even Ishwar Sahai's announcement is something only Babuji can attest to. Meanwhile there were dozens of Lalaji's disciples who present different facts. Now Chari allegedly claims to have "dreams" or have Babuji "channeled" by a third party and this information. Conveinient for him as these facts are totally un-proveable, just as your Autobiography myths are.

My friend, what I am saying is that Missions and Successors, do not matter. This may seem a bold statement to you but I believe it boils down to how the system trains its adherents to treat their fellow man/woman in this world in order to evolve and prepare for the next. If selfishness remains, then all the detachment in the world won't save you!

Personally, I was attracted to Babuji's personality, not his credentials and always bristled when these myths were propogated as they are extremely manipulative. They represent clear signs of a spiritual organization degrading to a religion. Spirituality is about experiencing God. Religions are about believing in God. Now what have you written here that is about Spirituality?

Please, keep the focus on facts and experiences when writing here, not mythology and legend determining who's in charge. We're interested in YOUR EXPERIENCES not the myths propogated to benefit a few in charge of a large organization.

Sorry for being so blunt, but you must be careful presenting un-verifiable information here as truth. Not only does it serve no purpose, but it belittles YOUR experience, which, in spirituality IS important. The facts you present are not important in any spiritual sense and only serve to sway the masses to believe in a religious hierarchy without experiencing anything.

So, if you have experiences of your own that you'd like to share, then share them here, but understand that unless you personally witnessed Vivekananda and Krishna leaving the Brighter world to be in Babuji's presence, or if you've visited the Brighter World and confirmed these facts with these individuals, I suggest that you reserve posting these myths elsewhere.

Regardless, I hope you find happiness and benefit from the path you are on.

Michael

4d-Don said...

Hi anonymous...

(to the anonymous who claims the "authority" of "autobiographies")

I am writing my "autobiography" and state that, suported my Christ, Buddha, and Krishna, and "in all humility" I am appointing myself "lord of the Galaxy". I could be Lord of the Universe" or "special emissary" of the ONE to the People, but in my culture we are "humble" so the galaxy will suffice for us.

This appointment is blessed by all the saints of Christianity and all the saints of the east and far east. The atheist are also obviously in favour of my appointment as no atheists have raised the issue.

Since we are now "publishing" on the WEB, it will stand as my "temoignage" and be "beni" of the ONE (I use French because the ONE is French and you should learn that "holy" language too to communicate with IT, the ONE God) We, the French are the only ones who can "define" the meaning of the words as there is no word in your language that does the "exact" job. Your language will evolve and become "eleve" with time.

This is my Message from the ONE to you of the "false religions" and who "idolize" the "false representatives" of the ONE:

Go home and stay there and become Spiritual because the HOUR OF REALITY is upon you. Come out and visit as a "friend" not as a "Master". You don't have time to go into other countries and bother the good people with your "fantasies" and charlatan tactics.

With the Blessings of the ONE and in holy "humility"

I remain

4d-don

PS...Thank you "anonymous" who was a preceptor under Umesh and has now left because of costly court battles and disenchantment with the SRCM.
We who are "exposing" this group appreciate your "testimony". Please excuse my levity above. It is in frustration but I still bless them in my heart as they are just the "lost" souls. We will all find our way to the ONE. Even if we "Once was lost, but now I'm found" as in the song, Amazing Grace. We will expand to the Universe and beyond, it is our destiny and no "profiteer" will stop that process. They don't even delay it. They are just the learning process to make us aware of our "gullibility", in our wanting to "believe" in humans and their structures. We are the Children of the Deer (the gentle) pursued by the Lions (the predators). It was forever thus. We should not believe in them, they are just living their Nature. A snake will act like a snake. That is all it can do!!

Have FAITH IN ONE!

don

Anonymous said...

Michael,

I agree w.r.t the autobiography, nothing can be confirmed. Babuji said it, wrote it in his dairy and now few have it as book.
Anybody can claim it. There are few things one can look for 'Motive'

-Either the person claiming such dictations was mentally unstable

-Had desire for fame, money, material values

- or pass the 'truth' to the masses.

There could be more analysis on the isssue of motive, but my friend, i don't blame you the world is filled many pseudo guru's. Having never seen the 'good' side of the system, one would think in similar direction. I guess even i might have taken similar position.

I agree with you, the mission, sucessor does not matter. What matters to me is, my personal transformation. Am I still the same person, getting affected by every circumstances or have i 'naturally' moved to a more divine state.

There is a reason, many highly developed spiritual soul do not come out in public. The original emphasis, as i have learnt for 'sahaj marg' was propogation thru word of mouth. An abhyasi would introduce another person, if he/she sees that the there is a internal craving in the person.

I have seen that there was emphasis on 'quality' of abhyasi and never 'quantity'. We never wanted quantity. This is not for everyone to digest.

My preceptor used to tell me, this is power, and if tendencies are not understood and changed, a small thief would become very big thief. If utilized properly, the thief can become a saint.

I take trouble to write this, since it hurts when the finger is pointed to Babuji Maharaj. Please don't be hasty, leave the benefit of doubt. The system, organization did perform as ideally it should, i can attest to it. But when the quantity increased due to some organizer's enthusism, it went down.

Michael said...

Dear Anonymous

Apparently you have not read the blog and seem to think I did not know Babuji, but I did. I joined SRCM in 1979 and travelled to Shahjahanpur multiple times.

I am not sure whether Babuji wrote this "Auto"biography or if it was created by those around him. I was impressed with Babuji, but then again, I was also impressed with Chari. I also met some other very impressive Gurus, one was also associated with Lalaji.

I am by no means ignorant of the SRCM, or the practice of Sahaj Marg as I was a Preceptor and practiced it for over 10 years. I stand by what I say.

It is well documented that Babuji had very limited contact with Lalaji. He determined that he should announce his successorship from a dream he had after Lalaji passed away. By this time many of Lalaji's disciples and disciples of Lalaji's brother had established themselves as spiritual teachers and saw little need to follow Babuji. (Yes even Babuji mentions Lalaji's brother as a spiritual twin).

I am not judging Babuji, but am simply stating the facts. I do not believe even mentioning the dreams and visions that Babuji may or may not have had of Vivenkenanda, Krishna, Lalaji or other dead people is even remotely relevant to the spiritual experience one has in the presence of someone like Babuji.

Sadly, Anonymous, whomever he is, has decided Babuji's autobiography, which I have read, is a new religious document that everyone should read. This defeats the purpose of a spiritual practice that is supposed to develop one's own discrimination.

In today's SRCM discrimination is DEAD. It is all about blind obedience. Lions are turned into sheep while the wolves in the inner circle fight over morsels of meat.

It is a sad state of affairs, yet still some manage to extract some nectar from this rotting fruit.

Babuji was an impressive person, but he was human. He was able to convey something spiritual to others, but his legacy is rotting away as his hand picked inner circle fight over what remains of it.

I will be bold here and say that I believe he indeed made a mistake in creating SRCM and claiming exclusivity in the Sufi/Vedic heritage he gleened from his association with Lalaji. Other disciples of Lalaji chose claim any exclusive lineage. His doing so has done nothing but to muddy an otherwise simple spiritual path and establish a new religion based on myth and blind faith in dreams and visions and possibly illusions.

Michael

Alexis said...

Mr. Anonymous,
I just have discovered your comment (thanks to Don). It is terribly interesting. But there are things which I don't understand. Perhaps, you could explain me…
- You said Dr SP Srivastava was the 'working president' of the Mission, and yourself were the secretary when you went to the USA. Is it the SRCM of Chari or another one ? Is there two Missions : Umeshchandra's Mission and Chari's Mission ? Who is Srivastava ?
- You said that in your area of origin, people do not like Chari. What area is it? Uttar Pradesh ?
- You said Lalaji didn't like André Porey. How could they have known each other ?
Thanks for explanations

4d-Don said...

Anonymous and Michael...

Could one of you clarify a few things for me:

1. Which region of India are you from?
2. Who is Dr. Srivastava? What Mission is he from? Are we speaking of another Mission and not the SRCM?

3. You say you arrived in USA as "secretary of the Mission". Which Mission? SRCM of another Mission?

4. You mention 2 letters, one to Chari and one to Umeshchandra, do you have copies? Do you know who does?

You say:

I have also heard from my preceptor that Andre Porey was a strong contender for the successorship. Babuji had more liking for him, but Lalaji disapproved him, since Lalaji felt that Andrey Pore or people around him are not introvert and would utilize the power for material purpose. I recollect this as i read your post on people dressed in black showing up for meditation.

Did Lalaji know Mr. Porey? Could you clarify how that can be?

Thanks for your testimonial, anonymous, and your info.

If anyone else can clarify, or shed some light on these issues, please do so.

4d-don

Christian said...

Concerning what is behind dreams, whether their content is the picture of a master and the feeling associated is that of spirituality, abhyasis should learn more about what psychology knows about it.

The desire as well as whishes can cause dreams, and considering the obsession of Babuji with his master, I would not be surprised that some kind of psychological process of that nature caused the dream of successorship.

This dream was, maybe, a simple expression of Babuji's unknown whishes - but how to have fanatics consider that possibility seriously, just forget it.

Christian said...

Hi Michael,

you wrote:

"Rumor has it, that there have been "inner circle" discussions about our blogs and a US attorney has been asked to look into how to shut us down. Of course, in the US free speech laws prohibit the expression of personal opinions."

I must say now that it is getting more precise than ever.

But I'd like to add to your text that what we are doing is not just free speech.

It is a real work of documentation and research.
If the hypothesis that the SRCM is an imposture is true, that the SRCM is doing bad to people, famillies, and therefore to countries, our action is to build the bases for the defence of the citizens, therefore an activity of general interest.

This has its weight too.

You know how lonely we are when we finally drop out, with no possibilities at all to defend ourselves - against ourselves (more feelings than facts)? - or no inner resources to do the effort to be heard.

Now we must take courage, because if this happens, we will have to be efficient and not lose the chance to go deep.

I had the whish that they would not move in that direction, but I fear they will not resist.

Christian said...

Hi Anonymous,

You said you have copies of the letters used by ChariTM and Unesh to claim their succession.

These letters could be published on Michael's blog if he agrees as well as you - in the form of pictures resulting from a scan.

Anonymous said...

Thanks to all who have expressed interest in the posting.

-When Babuji left and chari came out with the sucessor letter, there were problems. There were factions.

- A working group was formed and S.P.Srivastava was choosen as the president. This is the same group -original SRCM shahjanpur HQ center. This was not immediate, it took a while (few years). The ashram was not getting properly maintained after Babuji.

Later this-Presidentship was passed on to Umeshchandra. Since Umeshchandra came out with a letter showing(1994), he is the appointed representative by Babuji.

Just to clarify, I have never had any association with SRCM-Chari. I have never met chari. My association has always been with SRCM, Shahjahanpur, India. BTW, alexis, there are many factions of SRCM, Chari's is one of them and it has large number.


Regarding Andrey Porey, What i wrote i got it from my preceptor. This was in 1990. How does Lalaji know Andrey? Well we are going to cross the physical boundry here to answer that.
Lalaji was almost a constant companion of Babuji Maharaj, it is evident from Babuji's dairy. From the kind of questions, doubts, i get here, I almost certain, nobody in this group has read it. I have not read the book 'Whispers of Truth ?" from Chari, so i cannot say whether its the same as what i am referring.

Chari has no access to Babuji Maharaj's diary. It was Lalaji's wish as well as Babuji's wish to have it printed after Babuji Maharaj leaves the physical body. Umeshchandra and now his son Navneet has it. Babuji used to have daily communication with departed souls. Originally written in urdu and english. This work was translated by Dr.S.P.Srivastava.
This is offcourse a very controversial aspect. We all need proof. A material proof, of a non-material 'thing'!

I have been discouraged by Michael, not to put stuff that cannot be proved or can be imaginary. The Irony is, What is false is getting proved in the courts! and survives in masses! (in this physical world!)

Friends, please remember Chari was not the only person close to Babuji Maharaj, I have known many senior perceptors who were very close to Babuji Maharaj.

It should not matter which region i am from in India. I did visit Shahjahanpur every year from 1987 onwards with 1996.

I have no objection to providing the letter chari or Umeshchandra is using to claim successorship, this were submitted to Supreme court of India towards the court dispute.

Just a word of caution to the enthusiastic folks here. I have been burnt by this and i personally would not like others to take that road.

My 'only' purpose to write all this is to share and help and never to 'bitch'. I can never do that for any thing that involves 'Babuji's' name.

call me 'A'

Michael said...

A,

Thanks for providing more information. As for your disappointment in me for not accepting the un-proven myths, It is not about tangible vs untangilbe or Supreme Court vs Babuji's visions, it is the deflection of focus on one's own spiritual experiences and the creation of Myth that is faith based rather than experiential that I have an issue with.

These Myths tend to cause the Masses to "follow" a Master rather than pursue their own spiritual practice.

Michael

Christian said...

1) So, how do we proceed with these letters if you are ok to display them?
2) I have asked on this blog to RK Pilani how to get the book you are talking about but had no answer. Is there a way to buy it somewhere?
3) I surely do not want to go in the direction of an open conflict and that's why I try to discourage it by showing that the cure could be worse. Our situation is not to claim being the SRCMtm as was yours or that of others who had this kind of problem.

4d-Don said...

Hi A...

Thank you for the candid information.

What a mess, what a mess, what a mess!
(an old Acadianism) or like Christian would say: Ah! ah! ah!....

You are very compassionate to share this with us and I appreciate it, as I am sure the others. The letters or any physical proof you have would be of immense support and comfort to us who have only had our "suspicions" and "feelings" of how things were at SRCM tm and are only getting it "confirmed" by yourself, Michael, Christian, Alain, Narayana, and others who have researched it for a long time like Alexis and the Infosect in France.

This sort of exchange (information) could only happen in this day and age, with the Internet, and maybe this time, they (the power hungry) will not get away with it.

It is my hope and my consolation to make up for my "broken family" as I'm sure is the same with Vincent (Belgium) and She Wolf (Switzerland), Elodie, Johan, and others in Europe.

Don...

Alexis said...

If I well understood, Babuji died in 1983, Chari presents its successor letter which is refused and a working group is created and chaired by Dr SP Srivastava (1983-94). Chari didn't be pleased and he constituted its own movement in parallel.
In 1994, Umeshchandra shows a letter which is recognized, SP Srivastava dissolves the group and Umeshchandra becomes official president of the Mission. You (Mr A.) are named secretary of the Mission in the United States in 1996 and you create a website...
It means there are 2 Missions, one official chaired by SP Srivastava first (1983-94) and after by Umeshchandra (1994-today), the other one unofficial chaired by Chari since 1983.
Am I mistaken ?

Alexis said...

Mr A.,
Do you know why Umeshchandra waited 1994 to show its letter ?
KC Narayana, son of Dr KC Varadachari, said he saw this letter in 83 or before. He said also Chari's letter was authentic, Umeshchandra's letter wasn't...
Do you know Narayana ? What is your impression ? And about Dr Varadachari ?

Christian said...

Few more ideas about what you say Michael, on the importance to distinguish between myths and spiritual experiences.

Because both are originated from inside, it is difficult - if not simply impossible - to make the difference.

After practicing psychoanalysis 12 years or more, the imaginary part has appeared to me as having quantitatively more and more importance in my "spiritual experiences". What I was sure to be spirituality fall in the category of imaginary.

What must be attributed to spirituality is most of the time beyond our understanding and our perception, even our consciousness.

Therefore, what is the interest to have a spiritual practice, as soon as we have removed the myth associated to it?

None, except if you are unable to live without a contact with god.

That's what I was looking for with approaching Sahaj Marg TM, but I found a myth taking all the scene and interfering so much that I felt bounded.

The abhyasis from the Sahaj Marg TM are trapped in a myth and in their own imaginary, but will never accept to examine this possibility.

A main index for this is their denial of intellect.

Intellect is the only tool for discrimination. A tool difficult to use.

Anonymous said...

Alexis,

your summary/understanding of the mission situation is correct.


Why did Umeshchandra waited for so long? I did not get a clear
answer. I did ask it.

There many division or preceptors practising by themselves, like Ragvendra rao, KC Narayana, Kasturiji and many more.

I have never met Dr.Vardhachari, But i know my preceptor used to speak very high of him. From some of the letters that are published online between him and Babuji, he was the chosen sucessor by Babuji, but he did not live long here.

I do not have much knowledge about KC Narayana. He seems to keep the door not wide open, maybe from bad experiences from abyasis following different group.

Here is my thought - purely personal, Most of the preceptors in India are doing good service and are keen on following the principles of Babuji maharaj, except the well known SRCM-Chari. There may be some good folks in there too.

Michael, i understand where you are comming from, but the onus of blindly following the Master and not the principles lies on the disciple.

I did accept the letter Umeshchandra produced, i did experience the 'grace' from him. But when the worldly actions were not based on 'principles' i moved on.

As the indian system, the guru is regarded as 'living god'. There is no other form of God you can experience physically. You may hit me for this, but i do accept that. But please remember Babuji has mentioned that it is better to remain without a Guru, instead of choosing a wrong one. The tests for such a guru are very high. I have and would test a guru to almost every doubt that comes across in my mind. Real faith develops following that, otherwise its all sheeps following.

Christian, The book i am refering, i have serious doubts if its available now.


My 2 cents to all the abhyasis, The method is correct, the principles are correct, pray directly to Babuji maharaj and he will help you. Its from my experience.

I am not sure how i can upload the documents here.


A

Michael said...

All,

There are not 2 but at least 3 SRCM groups now that KC Narayana has started ISRC.

The point that I would emphasize is that all these senior members, who claim all to have achieved the "Central Region" are fighting over an organization and successorship to it. This entire dynamic makes a mockery of spiritual attainment - and personally makes me not give a hoot about their spiritual achievments. They are behaving like the worst of human beings here on Earth and making a mess of things - Perhaps the brighter world is just a safe place to keep these dangerous souls safely away from humanity after death?

I will state again, and I know you all will not like this, but Babuji created this mess! He decided to create the Mission, claim himself sole successor of Lalaji and claim that only through Him and His Mission could one practically attain the Central Region. He attracted lots of impressive people into his fold and develped a strong power base with their combined energy.

I'm not questioning Babuji's sincerity or whether he had the dreams and visions that he wrote about, I am simply saying that he has created an organization and a culture that fostered power mongering and narcisissim.

Meanwhile there is a legacy that goes beyond SRCM - Lots of groups following Lalaji and his Brother. The Golden Sufi folks, associated with Irina Tweedie (Author of "Daughter of Fire") come from Lalaji's Brother's lineage. I believe they have preserved more of the basic principles that existed in Lalaji's days - no sole successor, etc...

So Babuji chose to deviate from the direction that Lalaji, his brother and their other disciples took of not having any real organization, nor any sole successorship to fight over.

I stand by my claim that the SRCM and the whole concept of Successors is done to control the masses. Spiritually focused individuals will find the right person or group to be associated with. Legal papers, organizations, and castles to meditate in, are not necessary - that is unless one desires to build a powerbase and a mass of sheep-like disciples to control. Who benefits from that?

Sorry to dissappoint those who still hold onto Babuji's legacy, but the truth is, his legacy is rotting away with every splinter group and "Central Region" disciple who claims to be pure path to the Brighter World.

Honestly, what is lost in all this is the whole concept of human development. There seems to be little concern for acting selflessly, and serving humanity without expectetion of getting something in return. It's all about "THE MISSION"...

What about HUMANITY? What about charity and forgiveness? What about honoring one's family and serving one's community?

How did all these principles get lost? Because everyone is so fixated on serving the Mission so that they can attain the Central Region so that they can become the next Master or at least become part of is Inner Circle!

Sad, very sad.

4d-Don said...

Hi all...

From Chari's speech in Malaysia:

The Prophetic (self-fullfilling or Karma) nature of his statements speaks to the greatness of the ONE.

Yes Chari, Sahaj Marg by your standards has become a "religion" where once (under Babuji) it was at least "spirituality". It's easy to point at others, but as Shakespeare said: "Methinks he doth protest too much!" How about "respect" for other people's path and family and country. Give it and you will get it. Most pyramidal institutions are or become "corrupt" and usually led by the "scum" of humanity that always seems to "float to the surface"

LEVITY:

I sense in my "psychic mind" that someone from France is hearing us, Hmmm...from Montpelier! Maybe it's the Medium who channelled the "Whispers from the Brighter World"...Join us in the open...Be brave as a lion and not as a "sheep". After all you are worth 500 sheep according to Chari, lurking in "virtual space".

I must be a Prophet and I must "represent God and Holiness"...I guess I'm a Master!!..

GIVE ME A BREAK! You're businessmen, Chari and the Brahmins! Give your head a shake and join the "human race". Take your own needle and burst you own "puss" (see below).

Here is the part of the Speech.

"If I say that religion is the greatest impediment to unity among human beings, it will not be believed by people of any religion, but you only have to look at the world scene today. It is not only Hindus and Muslims, but it is Muslims amongst themselves, the Shias versus the Sunnis, the Catholics versus the Protestants, things like that you see. There is more disharmony in this world today than perhaps ever before, even during the times of Hitler. That was concentrated, you know; it was like a boil which had gathered pus and with one prick of the needle you could relieve yourself of pain and infection. Today it is widespread. Terrorism was something that was fomented in Europe. But today it is worldwide. Everybody is a possible terrorist. Therefore people look at each other in a plane with suspicion."

Back to Don...

As Bob Dylan would say: "Now you don't talk so loud"

Clean up your back yard before teaching your "puss" (your words) to kids of 5-7 yrs old at your "OMEGA" (Final Solution) school.

The Greatest impediment to UNITY in the Sahaj Marg is not the "religions" but the "fanatics" and the "Megalomaniacs" who see themselves as "GOD", smarter and by destiny (Brahmin) and meant to be Masters of the Universe. NOT!!

That era is DEAD! We will bow no more to the Gods of fear and Destruction! With their mystic induction!!

I encourage all to read all of Chari's speeches and see why Sahaj Marg is so divisive to the abhyasis and their families. Sahaj Marg is divided at the core in its "intolerance" and "ignorance" and spreads its "puss" (Chari's words) on the "international" scene under the guise of "spirituality". NOT...

In this speech is also Chari's stand on "homosexuality". Though it is not "Sahaj Marg", he claims. It is only a POV (point of view). Not a very enlightened and tolerant POV for a Master!!!

http://www.srcm.org/literature/
recent.speeches/060120_Malaysia.jsp

Don

Christian said...

Hi Michael, Hi Anonymous,

I would have liked to get a look at those letters from Chari and Umesh.

The style of their content, as well as the writting if it was handwritten, can give me more insights.

If you do not whish to have them published on the blog, I would be happy to get them by other means.

If you do not want to transmit them anymore, let me know where I can find them at least.

Anonymous said...

Dear Michael,
Do you know what has happened to the Ashram at Shahjahanpur now?

Best wishes.

Michael said...

Anonymous,

I have been out of SRCM since 1990. I know that Umesh Saxena, Babuji's son had control of it after the event I experienced in 1987. I recently saw a post here by someone stating that Chari had attempted to take it over. I know nothing of this, but perhaps others could comment.

Anonymous said...

Dear A,
Your sincerity is greatly appreciated.
How to obtain copies of Babuji's letters to Chari & Umesh concerning the succession? I too would be interested to see these.
There is a recent letter from Navneet Kumar, Babuji's grandson, on the web with the sad news that Umesh, Babuji's son, is now dead.
Affectionately,
B.

4d-don said...

Michael..

I will post the letter from Navneet Kumar mentionned above but I will post it in the "First section" so all may readily see it..

Thank you B for your info...

Alexis is already on it and has left a request for Navneet to join us on our blogs...

Information will set us free..

As in Alice in Wonderland (or La-la land), "it gets curiouser and curiouser!!

4d-Don

Anonymous said...

Hi A,
Since so many people appear to be afraid to reveal their identities here (surely a symptom of some of the problems involved), how can we begin to get at the truth behind all this? Are the original court papers & judgements re. the succession etc. available in the public domain or to view anywhere, do you know? Where can copies of the original letters in question be seen? Hard facts and solid evidence are needed now, not more hearsay, presumption and opinion, in order to establish the truth.
Navneet is so far not answering requests for information. What can be done? Any suggestions, A? Anyone?
Regards.
T.S.

4d-don said...

Hi TS

I completetely agree with you!

Those who have documents, make them available to all unless you admit that you are afraid for the safety of your body,(physical violence, law suit, job descrimination, etc., mind (intellectual terrorism or curses of something akin to "hell" or "outside", or soul (losing it).

We who have stood up to the "all powerfull" Holy Roman Catholic Church, see this group as "peanuts". Those who are "exposing" the abuses of Islam are to be admired.

Where are the "true seekers" for TRUTH and REALITY in Sahaj Marg who see the abuses, have documents and keep them hidden? Are they all hoping to profiteer with "back-room" deals" of "silence at a price".

It is odd that the Seekers for REALITY cannot face reality when it is right in front of them. If the truth does not emanate from the physical structure of the Mission where secrecy abounds, or from the Intellectual (philosophical) structure of Sahaj Marg where "bad-mouthing" of gays, and other religions are the norm and where abhyasis are told not to "talk" on chat lines, then how in the Spirit will the Seekers be "moral" and ethical and "up-right". We (humans) are not one person divided in three parts, the material, the Mind, and the Spirit...We are ONE!!!

The fear and the low level of morality, back-bone and fortitude in the Sahaj Marg group leads me to think that this is not a desireable path for the family, the culture, the country and the planet....It leads to too much fear, opportunism, secrecy, immorality, divisions, and even "violence" to "killing to obey"...

Save your body, your mind and your soul...by showing compassion and your "love for "TRUTH" and REALITY by being a "witness" for the "victims"...

Information will set us free...

Once the info is out, the abuser is disempowered. Abusers need "darkness" to hide in or behind. His threats and his curses are just the rantings of "sick minds"...

Come on all you true "Spiritual Searchers"....Don't you believe in TRUTH and REALITY AT DAWN? or at "HIGH NOON" also??

PUBLISH THE DOCUMENTS SO WE CAN ALL SEE THEM!!!

4d-don

Anonymous said...

Dear All,
Navneet has now replied to some of the questions raised on the Tell me Truth India site, & promises to upload relevant documents etc. in the next few days. May he go well.
Affectionately,
B.

Anonymous said...

What has happened to the web-site for Shri Ram Chandra Mission, Shahjahanpur, & Navneet Kumar's blog on Tell Me Truth India? There are photos of Chari in the ashram at Shajahanpur on the web, he being garlanded before a photo of Babuji, in Oct. 2007. Navneet is Babuji's grandson. Anyone have any answers, please? What has happened to Babuji's daughter-in-law who was assaulted? What was the outcome of the resulting court-case, following the raid on the Ashram at Shahjahanpur? Anyone?
Yours, B.

vaidya said...

It is very funny Michael..seeing your comment on dunhill cigarettes and acquistion of real estates on one side and guess what - what are your practicing now..are you in a system - I think you have gone to religion where the leaders dont smoke and they don't buy estates (hectares and acres of land) and all the more they drink and we read all the news articles about child sex abuse. Fundamental rule is whether you can progress and move on..that should be your criteria for the system and not judge others in the system and bail out because of that. Ofcourse the loss is yours and seeing other people come back - lo and behold you will come back to sahaj marg and I will probably meet you in the ashram and if I do so, I wouldn't be surpised - that will be good for you.

Michael said...

Dear Vaidya,

I'm sorry you were offended by my Dunhill comment. Obviously this innocuous truth struck a cord in you resulting in your post.

Clearly you have either not read my blog, or barely so. What you read is over 2 years old and you're just getting around to comment. Where have you been my sister? Have you not been allowed to read my blog until now? I certainly hope not!

Sadly, you failed to grasp that my spiritual path never ended, but in fact actually continued in a rather big way when I departed from the SRCM organization. Likewise you seem to miss the fact that I view the corruption of the Catholic Church and SRCM inner circle equally abhorrent and say so many times through out this blog. I even state that we have enough religion. My opinion is that SRCM is indeed undergoing a transformation into a faith based religion. The important point of this blog is my witnessing the beginnings of this very transformation! Yet, you missed that point, choosing to judge and imply that I am a lost soul for not embracing the transformation.

Why is it that Indian SRCM'ers can embrace the Hindu religion as part of their heritage and derive spiritual and cultural benefit from it, yet if I embrace my Christian and Native American heritage I have somehow lost my way and become a slave of religion or paganism? I have gone to temples with Chari and watched him perform Hindu ceremonies as a Brahman. Does this make him a slave of religion too?

For the record, I belong to no religion, but only embrace the heritage of my grandparents. Since departing SRCM, I have been fortunate to receive guidance from Sufis, Shamans, and Christian Mystics, who offer assistance and respect the sovereignty of my spirit.

As for your comment about my eminent return to SRCM - No doubt, we will meet someday on the path - don't be surprised if it isn't YOU who runs into me when you decide to expand to broader spiritual boundaries. You will always be welcomed as a sister and a friend who's soul and spirit is just as much a part of the Creator as anyone else's.

My spiritual path is neither for sale, nor is it a commodity to be traded for something in return. I choose not to wear it on my sleeve in order to feel better about myself by convincing others that it is The ONLY path.

Spirituality is the birthright for us all. Even Babuji's writings state this fact. Each path we take, however, is a very personal one that my not be the right path for others.

I look forward to meeting you on the path of light. When that day comes, I will not judge you for the choices you have made. They are your choices and I will honor them as such. I hope you will also honor mine.



Love,

Michael

Anonymous said...

Hi Michael...

Judging by the tone and number of the recent posts, I think the orders from the top of the sales PYRAMID of SRCM (California), is to now respond to the BLOGS, this "curse" of Chari and other such religious autocrats.

Good for you to catch their "timbre", and see through their pressure sales techniques through the facade of "brotherhood". "We know what is good for you", they claim.

There is more "spirituality" in people like yourself and otherslike you from the USA, and the occident in general today than what I see coming out of these "GODMEN" from other parts of the undevelopped world, specially those who use the sales monicker "NATURAL", "EASY", or SAHAJ (Sahaja).

They could be selling soap or other commercial products of mass consumption as they use the same approach... Words like "natural", "simple", "easy", "all new", "green", are what the "MacDonalds" of commerce and of Religion and Spirituality have always used for their self-serving MISSION of attracting numbers... the Master will Save all, they claim, and there is nothing to do but to OBEY.... and PAY! If MacDonald's gives away one burger for free, it's because they will get the "PAY" somewhere else...(recipients of freebee "come-ons" are expected to come back with friends).

In this case, the order has come down from AJ Bhatter, to contact those who have left the "GANG", and try and get them back in.

Don...