Tuesday, May 16, 2006

Letter To Abhyasis


It is common for Abhyasis to claim that their experiences with Sahaj Marg are unique and exclusive. I have to ask, what other forms of meditation have they practiced to make such comments?

I also remember my first experience of participating in an intensive meditation seminar years ago. It was truly the first time I had experienced such inner peace. I've since experienced this many times outside of Sahaj Marg. It is not exclusive to Sahaj Marg, but is a natural occurrence when one meditates intensively and focuses their thoughts towards the God within.

To claim that this can only be experienced in Sahaj Marg is not logical unless you've practiced several other similar meditation techniques. We need to be careful making such claims of exclusivity.

One unfortunate aspect of SRCM is its fixation on a person’s level of spiritual achievement. God can take you to whatever stage you need to be at in an instant if it is required. It is more important to focus on what type of person you are becoming and how you treat others. By living your life with God in your heart, you will learn how to prepare yourself for whatever level of spiritual development is required. Comparing ones spiritual level to another’s is just an egotistical game that serves no practical purpose. In fact it is dangerous as it diverts one’s focus away from being selfless in their actions to being extremely self centered. For this reason, I see much selfish and narcissistic behavior in most spiritual groups, and Sahaj Marg is no exception. Rather than chasing the Master around the world to get a glimpse of him or dedicating your life to reaching the central region, you could be feeding the poor!

86 comments:

4d-Don said...

Hi Michael

Again, Sahaj Marg is Spirituality that makes a "virtue" of stinginess.
Scrooge could be the next GURU of SRCM. ;-))

Babuji would not, according to Chari, give 5 rupees to a beggar. "He was not a generous man", he said. It is strange how the underpinnings of our western (Christian) civilization like the Faith, Hope and Charity, the "golden rule" and "turn the other cheek" and "freedom" are so easily "surrendered" by the offsprings of those who have had to build it from scratch and/or "struggle" for it.

Feeding the poor is seen by Sahaj Marg as something that they do not do, they are into "spirituality".
They will fund-raise to feed the pilgrims "free of charge" at the Ashrams who can afford to pay for their food. It's all about building pools of money that feed the "general revenues".

It ain't very Christian. Isn't it strange that we did not chose to follow Sister Theresa or other "humanitarian" instead of Ram Chandra and Sahaj Marg. One was doing it (Life) and one was "navel gazing" and sitting on his behind while the children and the sick and the poor suffered.

We are really sheep are we not? addicted to pre-digested or processed "sensations" a la MacDonald's. Never again!

Keep on the Sunny side of Life

Bless you for your good work...

4d-Don

Anonymous said...

Not giving to the poor,is one of the biggest things I have against SRCM.

I have done various other forms of meditation and self inquiry and I can tell you that the experience is not unique.

A significant feature of a decent spiritual organization is the recommendation the abhyasis help and feed the less fortunate. This is consistent with Hinduism (which is, what SRCM is, for the most part) or Christianity. Seva is other organizations call it,(and I don't mean the free volunteer labor for the ashram itself). SRCM only wants Abhyasis to give money and time to the organization. This, has always disturbed me.

Anonymous said...

Hi Anonymous
I don't quite agree... what ever benefit you get ... you need to share with others... How can you if you do not spare time ... You have to accept one thing - no one is ever forced to do it. I have been around for quite some time and there was never an instance when money was demanded.

4d-Don said...

Hey Anonymous...

You just don't get it. Money is not "demanded" but you will obey and buy every book and go to every seminar and proselytize, or sell for them (you will call it "telling your "friends" (which are not your friends anymore as you have the only friend that matters and you are just a "judas goat") so as to save them or "share") but the money will leave your pockets and go to the Mission's very deep pockets and your time will be spent with them at the cost of the planet, family, friends, the poor, the needy, the sick, etc....

When a Pop Idol puts out a product, he/she does not "demand" that the "fan" buy the product but the fan who wants to please his idol or "be in", buys it anyway. It's called "commercialism", and it works. It's not subtle for the abstract minded or the philosophically inclined but for the "sheep" with no life of their own, it is subtle and works at the sub-conscious level. And it works just fine. They will not tell you that.

Jimmy Swaggart, Jimmy Baker, Oral Roberts, Benny Hinn (all televangelists) do not demand money but the sheep send them money to "get to heaven" or to receive "blessings", that is called "spiritual capitalism". In the case of Sahaj Marg, the dependence on the Guru, is "cultivated" thanks to the research of the Internation Spiritual Psychiatry Association, for which some preceptors have done research on their own abhyasis and who are members of both groups. That is called "Spiritual Psychiatry".

So you are manipulated at all levels and if you are to find out if you are being "sucked" of money, you must ask the question: Is money leaving my pockets and going to SRCM Pockets. Period! You will soon find the answer is "YES". And much money too, as you purchase all the "regurgitated" material and the "Channelled" (by mediums) messages of departed souls that are received by the "french lady"....

By the way! Why is Chari not receiving the messages from Babuji himself, is he not "sensitive"? Is he not in contact with Babuji? Is this new medium now the "representative of Babuji"....That is called "spiritualism" and is rampant in the western marketplace so it must attract some "suckers"

Open your eyes and undo the "formatting" that you received from the "system"...It is called a cult and it is. You just don't know it yet! When you open your eyes, you can thank Michael for his "courage and his Time and effort".

May you find true spirituality which means "going inside" not to the "Mission" which is "outside". or the Guru which is "outside", Inside is you and God, not you and "Chari as God". That just will make you a "clone", not an enlightened spirit.

God did not tell the cedar tree to become a clone of the fir tree so as to be "spiritual" or "saved". You and your spirit are sacred just like Chari and his spirit is sacred.

Go inside and be with the ONE GOD....SHE/HE/IT's name is not Chari!

4d-Don

T.E. said...

Hi 4d-don. You seem to have had some bad experiences with Sahaj Marg, but I caution you against stereotyping your experiences and observations as being true for everyone else who has participated in the organization. I have been in Sahaj Marg for a few years now. Until I happened across some stuff on the internet today put out by some disgruntled ex-practitioners, I was unaware that there was anyone else out there who shared some of the same concerns as myself, especially enough so to put anti-Sahaj Marg info on the internet. However, I think your comments to Annonymous are way overblown. In my few years in the practice, not only has no money been demanded or asked of me, but on the contrary, it has been made clear that it is no object whatsoever--that it's my being at the gatherings that is important, not my money. To this date, I have attended several gatherings and have not paid a single penny to do so. In truth, it cost the Mission money for me to attend because I used the facilities and ate the food that was provided. I have also not bought any of the books, tapes, etc., nor have I been encouraged to do so. Instead, my preceptor has offered me the use of any of his materials, should I desire to borrow them. Though my preceptor is extremely dedicated to the practice (he's been in over 30 years), Sahaj Marg has never been shoved down my throat, not by him nor any other preceptors I've met. In fact, it's been very laid back. I've never been, nor have I known others from my area to have been stronly encouraged tocontinue with the practice, or threatened or cautioned that anything bad would happen should I try to leave the practice. Quite the opposite, in fact. It hasbeen made clear to me that I am in control--that I can slow things down or even stop them as I choose. And I have fully utilized this freedom, as I may take sittings every week, or not show up for several months and I know that I am not the only one from my area to do so. So while there are certainly a number of things about the Mission and its Voice with which I simply do not agree, it's not necessarily as horrible as you make it out to be. It definitely has it's faults, but the Mission, and even Chariji for that matter, cannot be held entirely to blame. A good chunk of that lies with the individual abhyasis. People may be getting used, but they're not only standing in line for the opportunity, they're practically fighting each other for it. I'm as put off with the behavior of abhyasis in Chariji's presence as I am with any questionable views or methods of the Mission or Chariji. And it's not as if anyone was subjected to extreme brainwashing or anything--it's totally thier choice if they want to fork over $10,000 for an autographed copy of a children's book or mob Chariji like he's some famous pop star and they're a bunch of fanatical teen-aged groupies. Let's give credit where credit is due.

T.E.

4d-Don said...

Hi TE...

If you are one that money was lost on by the Mission, then Good for You!! Are you counting everything??

Did you introduce anyone else to the Mission? Did you defend it? Did you "proselytize", or sell the Mission or Sahaj Marg to anyone?
These are all costs that "marketing" experts take into consideration.

One North American Televangelist even predicts that his "marks" will recieve money and, as if my magic, a cheque comes in the mail. That person then is a "walking commercial". That "miraculous cheque" is costed in, and it works.

The Mission might lose one or two who are "disgruntled" with that sort of "commercialization" of Sahaj Marg (read Dr. Varadachari's story on-line at their site ISRC) and see the warnings way back then), but gains 10 who are just innocently "looking around", by the testimonies of "judas goats", who will lure in the "marks".

If the "Idol" has worshippers it is because the IDOL or his handlers encourages it and seeks it out. It's an easy thing to create. It's being done eveyday in Hollywood.
If Chari wants to be considered "spiritual" he can create a "spiritual" atmosphere, not a "rock star" atmosphere. He is after all the "representative of God". Does God have that "Rock Star status". Power-hungry "profiteers" use God to get "adored" and they are not "spiritual" but Materialists. Chari is the Billy Graham, the Oral Roberts or the Benny Hinn of India.

There are others who defend the "corruption" of the Mission as you do. That is part of the "marketing" strategy and you were paid by "free stuff". You will notice that the abhyasis are warned about sharing the "Whispers from the Brighter World", as it is copyrighted. This $250.00 US book of Messages from Babuji (deceased since 1984) and other "elevated and departed souls" that was channelled by an unknown person, (rumours have it that it was a lady from France) can be considered to be the "spiritual" system of Sahaj Marg but it is really "spiritualism" and another "densification" of the masses to make the unsuspecting pay and then proselytize with an "amazing" story of "channelling" from beyond the grave. Where is Houdini to debunk it.

Don't be put off by the behaviour of the abhyasis, they (and you) are after all "not responsible" as per the Sahaj Marg Material and are "cloned" by the Guru, so they must be like him....trying to please the Master so as to get into the "Brighter World" (not the system of 16 rings of Babuji anymore) before their time because their "samskaras" will have been "erased" by Chari, or before the rest of us, the Un-enlightened.

Sahaj Marg used to be "spiritual"...It is not anymore. It is a PR machine created from a small meditation group that was taken over by a gang of nationalist, profiteers and used to build markets for India and ensure their own place in the history of their own culture. There are 75,000 such Gurus in India waiting to pounce on our cultures, targeting our women and children.

By the way, Chari just arranged another wedding of a European woman 23 yrs, to an Indian man of 26, unknown to her.
Oh! it will be a "spiritual" union.

And they will try and fill the Lalaji Memorial OMEGA school with the children of Abhyasis and preceptors. And of course as a "free" citizen, you have read the curriculum of the school. (I made a copy, before they "hid it".
The requests have also gone out for abhyasis and preceptors to move to India and live in the "Mission Ghettos" (as per the wife of a preceptor) and dedicate their lives to the Mission.

I will attempt to insure that their place in history is accurately recorded.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but do the same to Chari....He is wrong in so many statements that I sometimes wonder how intelligent people can swallow his "ramblings" and "rantings".

Like: GOD IS MALE, Nature is Female...Teach that to your Chidren.
I don't think that the average abhyasi reads the material or does not understand his words.

Yeah Chari...very elevated...for an engineer!!!

don

T.E. said...

Gee Don, if you weren't so hostile maybe you could see that you don't know nearly as much as you seem to think you do. To answer your question of whether or not I tried to sell others on Sahaj Marg, the answer is no. The people that I know aren't even aware that I am involved in Sahaj Marg, for that matter. Also, I am not, and have not defended the Mission. Just because I believe that abhyasis have behaved improperly does not mean that I think that everything the Mission does is right. In fact, I agree with the points that several "disgruntled" abhyasis have brought up. In truth, I even wrote a letter to Chariji and had it hand delivered to him when he was here several years ago in Georgia, and in this letter I stated some similiar concerns I had and questioned things that he had said. In case you haven't noticed, I always refer to him as "Chariji", not "Master", because I have never felt comfortable with him, the things he says, or the direction that the Mission seems to be leading some people in under his direction. I did not know Babuji, but I tend to think he was quite contrary to the person that Chariji is. Why Chariji was chosen as his successor, I have no clue. But I accept that there are many things I don't know and I doubt that Babuji was a fool. Furthermore, although I sense that Babuji had a truly good heart, there is only one who has been in human form that I would consider giving myself over to completely and that is Jesus. And no, I'm not a Christian. I am anti-religious, pro-spiritual--always have been, even as a kid, and I always question what I see and hear, especially if it seems ass-backwards and even if it doesn't, because I know that things are not always as they seem. As for the stuff about the "rock star" atmoshere--I agree that Chariji should be speaking out against such behavior, but seriously, if Jesus were to appear on earth tomorrow, do you not think that people would behave the same way around him? The scenario reminds me of a book by Richard Bach (author of Johnathan Livingston Seagull). The book is called Illusions-Reflections of a Reluctant Messiah. It's a fiction book and it deals with the same subject. It's an easy and enjoyable read--one of my favorite books and I would recommend it to you in particular. (Hope you don't think I'm just being a "Judas goat" for Richard Bach, reeling in potential readers who might buy his books. I'm simply suggesting a good title, and my lawyers said that I should specify that I am in no way compensated by, associated with, or a blind follower of Richard Bach, his publisher(s), or any of thier affiliates.) The way I see it, Chariji is similiar to a doctor. People have a problem with thier health, they go to thier doctor and ask him to make it all better. Same with Chariji. See, people don't want to accept the responsibility for thier own physical or spirtual health--they want to just keep on doing what they're doing and then have the all-powerful doctor give them a pill, or the all-powerful Chariji to send some pranahuti thier way and make everything all better. No, Sahaj Marg/SRCM/Chariji is not totally responsible for the behavior of abhyasis--not for the "rock star" mobbings, not for handing over thier money, not for hanging on every word of thier "Master". And this is by no means a defense of the said organization, but rather a statement that things could not have gotten so far out of hand if pepole were not so willing and eager to hand over responibility for themselves to someone else. Sahaj Marg should be a tool to assist one in thier spiritual quest, not a wheel chair to bring them all the way because they aren't willing to get off thier butts and walk the path themselves. But people don't want to do the work, they want someone else to do it for them, thus the organization has become what it has become. True, Chariji has done nothing to stop it from going there, and has maybe even encouraged it, but like they say, it takes two to tango. People are not so foolish as you like to make them out to be. What they are is seeking the easy way out, which is simply human nature. I guess maybe I have the advantage in that I'm already convinced that this is not my last visit to this lovely planet, so I'm not in such a rush to reach "enlightenment", though I'm certainly working on improving myself, or improving my character I guess would be a good way to put it. It (working on one's character) is probably the only thing that I am aware of that Chariji has said that I would agree with, because as I see it, we are not physical beings with a spirit, but rather we are spiritual beings experiencing a physical existence. There really is no "physical world versus spiritual world", and the two factors are not opposite sides of the same coin, either. Physical existence is one form of a spiritual state of being. Therefore, the progress of the physical being or "development of the character" is the progress of the soul. That's just my take on things. And I don't go in for this idea that you can act like a jerk your whole life yet still be magically ushered out of the wheel just because you meditated and said a prayer every day. That idea is absurd--if you want to reach "the goal" you've got run the ball there yourself. No work, no pay. So you see, not everyone in Sahaj Marg is a Mission peddling, foot-kissing, brainwashed "Judas goat". I, for one, take from Sahaj Marg what works for me and leave what doesn't. I think you and I would probably agree on quite a few things, Don, if you weren't so aggressively proselytizing your anti-SRCM agenda. It seems that YOU are the one trying to gather blind followers, as you seem no better at addressing challenges to your way of thinking than Chariji. If you really want to make yourself heard, you might try a calm, intelligent, approach with factual evidence to back you up, because honestly, when your approach is to aggresively shove your opinions down people's throats, the only thing you're getting through to anyone is that you need to grow up and stop acting like a five year old having a temper tantrum.

T.E.

Michael said...

TE,

Thanks for participating in this forum. Its good to see thinking people involved on the inside of SRCM commenting with logic and thoughfulness. You are always welcome to comment here and I invite you to continue to do so.

As for Don, well, he serves an extremely important function. While some, like yourself, still recieve enough benefits to continue in the SRCM in spite of some of the challenges facing the Mission, some individuals and their families have been injured beyond repair by this organization. Don, represents the expression of the pain that results from these injuries. I love Don, and his comments are always welcome here as well. Please put his comments in context as I do, as one who's family has been damaged in the name of "service to the Mission". While some simply stand helpless watching their loved ones drawn into a hazardous situation, Don does what he can to put warning signs on the hazardous road. Warning signs sometimes need to exaggerate the dangers in order to get ones attention. Like it or not, he serves an important function, just as your measured voice does in this forum.

I'd like to help calm things down here and comment on some of the very good points you have made.

First of all, it does take two to tango. An individual who makes the choice to trust unquestioningly, without regards for the consequences, must take responsibility for their choices and poor personal boundaries they have established in their spiritual life if they are injured in the process.

Built on your first point, is an important second point, that you, have managed to establish sufficient boundaries for yourself in the organization to still extract benefit from it.

This is important with respect to the differences between you and Don.

Some, like Don, chose not to join the organization, but members of his family did, and as a result he suffers from their lack of personal boundaries and willingness to sacrifice the life that was placed before them by God, to serve an organization that was only intended to be a "Light Structure" to make heart based meditation available to the common householder.

Please continue to comment here, and feel free to dis-agree with Don, me and anyone else here.

I appreciate both of your thoughtful participation and hope it continues.

Michael

4d-Don said...

Hi TE

Well at least you still have "character", so you are not a complete "clone" of the Mission ;-)). Sorry to "dump" on you as "one of them". My experience in these last few years has benn dealing with "dense" characters who had lost the ability to care, or express "compassion", or even to think for themselves (outside of the SRCM Box)and I wrongly took you another one...

I am glad you are not and I commend you! If you see me doing it ( what I call: "trying to get the attention of a "tennessee Mule", to others, it is through frustration. My direct and civil and loving and caring approach to Chari and the Mission have met with arrogance, ignorance and just dismissiveness. I saw the same experience "relived" with the exchange between Chari and Christian (see the e-mailson Poxy SRCM) on his site. Those replies do not display caring or Brotherly Love that is professed, or Love for anyone but "the Mission", and the egotistical Guru. That is what I also saw in my wife and the other abhyasis I met through her, and/or had exchanges with on these blogs (except for a few, like yourself)

I think that "Tolerance for the Tolerant" is something that I never thought I would espouse, but I am slowly becoming that way with "fundamintalists" of every religions and cults (of a Personality) like SRCM)

At least, with their "intolerance" mirrored back at them, we now have the attention of the Mission!!! and the Management Team. I can state that with a certain certitude. (Acadianism)...LOL

At the very least, others might start to "question" before blindly getting "snared" and then having to make an "effort" to get out, as SRCM is, like every addiction, "habit forming"....and adhrents (sticky as they are), do not unstick themselves easily through the same laziness that "snares" them.
And the SRCM, for many, if not for all, will "skim" time and/or money....That is the way of "spiritual capitalism"

The best we can hope for with religions is to make them "taxable", exept in the amounts that they "give" to charity, (not the amount they raise so as to cover the cost of their "bureaucracies" and build "pools of money" to use as they see fit at the discretion of the President

I enjoyed you comments and hope you will continue...

Don...

T.E. said...

Hey again Don. Wow, what a difference--I heard you much better when you weren't spewing hatred, and I think a lot of people will hear you better if you simply state your side of things without all the shouting. It's kind of like with terrorists--they must have a cause behind what they are doing, but that cause is lost in the fog of aggresion and hatred that they put forth. Think of where blacks would be today in this country if the Civil Rights movement had followed Malcom X's initial views instead of Martin Luther King, Jr.'s. A calm approach that appeals to the logic and sympathies of people is clearly a much more effective method. I am sorry that you have suffered so much at the hands of the Mission, and I do understand your anger and frustration. I, myself am not actually a member of the Mission, meaning that I never applied for membership and I don't consider myself associated with that aspect of it. I do consider myself to be a practitioner of Sahaj Marg, though far from adhering strictly to the practice. I guess I've been fortunate in that I have a preceptor who doesn't try to shove it down my throat. Other members from my area seem to also have a laid-back, non-fanatical approach to Sahaj Marg as well. However, I will admit that my preceptor has expressed some of his ways of thinking that have shocked and bothered me. He and I are friends, and there are a number of things that we do think similiarly on, but there are other things for which I can only shake my head and think to myself, "I'm sure glad I don't have to live with this guy". That I am in the position where I can just smile and say, "see ya later" and know that my life won't be impacted in the same way as those close to him...believe me, I have been grateful on more than one occasion for that. Something my preceptor said was one of the things that I put in that letter to Chariji and questioned how it is that Sahaj Marg could be producing people that thought that way, and was that way of thinking not contrary to what was truly needed for spiritual growth. (Of course, I did not receive a response). Indeed, Sahaj Marg has been taken as a licence by some people to merely dig themselves into a nice little rut and refuse to budge because they figure that if they follow the Sahaj Marg rituals and methods, then they'll be graciously freed from samsara without having to do the real work necessary to earn thier way out. Likewise, though, some Christians think thier role as a Christian is to try to be the best person they can be, while at the other end you have people who think that calling themselves Christian and showing up for church assures them a spot in heaven regardless of what they do. Again, a licence to think and behave poorly with everything turning out fine and dandy in the end. And for some, thier religion has been thier saving grace that has brought them through difficult times, while for others it has destroyed thier lives, such as in the case of boys who are molested by preachers whose acts are covered up by the church and conveniently blamed on "the devil". No system is perfect, especially considering that it is human beings that comprise the organizations that utilize the systems...there are bound to be both good and bad experiences in all of them. I am fortunate that I have not had to experience much of the "bad" in Sahaj Marg, and I'm sorry that the same cannot be said for you, and for many others. I do agree that warnings should be out there concerning Sahaj Marg, but I think those warnings may be more useful if they described the traps that an unquestioning or spiritually "too eager" of a person may fall into, particularly considering the current leadership of the SRCM. But just slamming the Mission I don't think is going to get the point across, and may even close off potential listeners from hearing your voice. Just tell your story and let the facts of the reality of the situation speak for themselves. Hopefully you will be able to find some peace in knowing that your experinces may help others to avoid going down the same road as you and your family.

T.E.

T.E. said...

Hi Don. I was out at your blog and have read about half-way through it--good writing. Guess I just caught you on a bad day here. In reading from your blog and Christian's (I had already read Michael's), I'm seeing some recurring themes, ways of thinking and behaving that I thought were unique to certain individual practioners,(as I have not observed such backwardness in all abhyasis whom I know) but it is becoming clear that there are some particular behavioral problems which a number of suceptible people have aquired under the "guidance" of the Mission. I will reiterate that it is not everyone (in Sahaj Marg) who fits the bill, though. Again, much of the problem lies with the individual, and if the SRCM didn't help to screw the person up, some other group or organization probably would. I have seen it everywhere, and that it why I have challenged your attacks that target the Mission as being fully responsible. In my own spiritual quest, I have "tried out" many things, traveling casually through "new age" circles that led me to a number of groups, organizations, and individuals. I have seen similiar problems concerning money, power, and idolizing in probably all of them. As a testimony to this, I'll offer an example of one such experience. There was a small "new age" organization that invited a "healer" to conduct a workshop. Of course, there was a fee for attending this workshop (plus the cost of the manual produced by this "healer"). This "healer" was supposedly a great "light-worker", as she was said to have been trained by some very powerful shamans and was very adept in the techniques that she had learned and built upon. The instant I saw her, I felt anything but "light" associated with this woman. She did nothing to make me believe anything contrary to my initial impression. In fact, one of the things she had us do was to hold our hands up in front our faces and stare at them. (If you do this, then after a short time, it will look like parts of your fingers are disappearing.) Well, this woman actually had people believing that their fingers really were disappearing, and that this was the beginning of learning how to teleport. And for about $10,000 each, we could take the month-long intensive workshop in which we could learn the techniques of teleportation. And one lucky and adept student would have the priveledge of teleporting with her to France for lunch at a cafe at the end of the workshop. I wanted to laugh out loud. It was clear to me that this woman was nothing more than (a very wealthy) con-artist. However, it was also clear that was not the general feeling in the room (so I held back my laughter), and one woman even begged to be her lacky so that she could attend the workshop at a discounted rate. Of course, the "healer" told her she was sorry, but she had to have the funds in order to attend. I remember the look of extreme disappointment and longing on that woman's face, and I could tell that she was trying to think of some way that she might come up with the money. It was pitiful. So you see, this is why I believe that warnings should be directed more towards the traps that a susceptible person may fall into, rather than just a beligerent criticism of a particular organization. Of course, I have seen now that your warnings can be presented reasonably, and not just as attacks as I first viewed on this blog, and I hope that for the sake of informing rather than alienating, you will stick with the reasonable approach. No doubt, there need to be warnings out there about the pitfalls that await the individual lacking discernment who enters the realm of the SRCM/Chariji, or any organization or group for that matter. It is scary what some people, especially those who otherwise might seem normal and intelligent, are willing to believe. But I suppose we have all been there at some point or another. Who knows, that you and I question the world around us may be the result of having been suckered and led astray in a previous lifetimes, with that lesson having been engrained upon us.


T.E.

Michael said...

TE,

OK, now it's my turn to rant...

That is an astonishing story you tell about the "healer". SRCM's lure is more sublte, but just as ridiculous as your "healer" example. They've created the concept of the Central Region. Where's the proof of its existence other than the word of the Master? Regardless, 100s of thousands of abhyasis have become completely dedicated to achieving it, believing that their Master will take them there if they only submit to him. Not much different than paying $10,000 to teleport to France for lunch with the "healer" is it? -

-And after the Master informs you that you've achieved the Central Region, how much money has been spend on seminars, book subscriptions, donations to ashram construction, etc.?

I've concluded that when a spiritual practice becomes goal oriented (central region, Teleporting to France for lunch, etc.), it quickly becomes cultish and lost in itself. Spirituality is about "being". If, through spiritual practice you achieve anything, it is "becoming" what you already are.

Not only has Babuji's simple message been completely glossed over, but Lalaji's writings where this very principle is described, have been COMPLETELY buried!

If Lalaji's Truth Eternal hasn't been banned or taken out of print you can read how he describes the spiritual journey leading us back to a nearly identical state of ignorance that we started with. Babuji hinted that it was as simple as "turning your head from here to there".

The "hints" are there, but lost in the noise of speeches admonishing preceptors for not meeting their quotas, bashing Christianity, and fundraising for the next big ashram project.

For SRCM to be renewed, I suggest they forget the spiritual goals. They are only used to manipulate disciples with a sense of inadequacy and dependence. Insted SRCM could get back to promoting meditation and prayer to reveal to the disciple that they already are who they need to be. Sadly, there are few solid examples of "being" in the Inner Circle of SRCM.

Even more sad, the point of a spiritual guide in Lalaji's tradition was to simply be an example of how to "be". What is the point of the guide in SRCM today?



Michael

4d-Don said...

Hi TE and Michael..

Thanks for your comments and suggestions...


I enclose this quote from the Sahaj Marg Material that shows that the idolatry in Sahaj Marg is not by accident.


From Salient Features of Sahaj Marg (SMRI Series 3) Page 52-53

Idol Worship;

Sahaj Marg has nowhere said temple worship is wrong, nor does Master expressly forbid idol worship. ....

To other abhyasis, the preceptor has become such an idol. I believe that any abhyasi who says, "my preceptor" when talking about the preceptor who is serving him has fallen into this form of idol worship. Here it is the preceptor who has been transformed into an idol, or idolised. Here again the Master may be in the background, but is that Master's rightful place? When Master says that every gods are fuctionaries of Nature, and are there to serve, and not to be served, can we deify preceptors and relatives in this way?

I must say that preceptors generally do not fall into this error. But abhyasis idolize them to the extent of ascribing to them the credit which should go to the Master. Where our credit is given, there goes our gratitude and this is followed by our love. So, wrongly ascribed credit can be disastrous in leading to the creation of an idol for us. So Master's message is quite clear. All credit goes to our Master. When we give credit where it is not due, that too is a form of idol worship. We should beware of falling into such errors.......

and this one in:

From "Salient Features of Sahaj Marg" Series 2 (page 26)....

In examining this idea of freedom, we have been led to the conclusion that what we have thought of as freedom is nothing but a state of surrender to the Master's will. We have not lost freedom in the sense that we have been deprived of it. We have voluntarily, whole-heartedly and devotedly surrendered it to the Master of our Soul. To those who are fortunate enough to arrive at this stage, the Master is no longer a guide for spirituality alone. He has now become the Master of one's life in all it's aspects of existence. He becomes the father, the mother, the son, the teacher, the doctor, in fact, there is no role that He does not play in the abhyasi's life. He has taken total charge of the abhyasi. So we see that only our surrendering to Him can bring about a state where He can take total charge of us!

Analysing this further we find, surprisingly, that a great and unimaginable freedom is now confered on the abhyasi. It is the freedom from freedom itself. It is the freedom of invulnerability. We may even say that it is the freedom of invincibility. We are no longer answerable for our actions. We merely obey. The person who issues the orders, the Master, assumes complete responsibility for anything we do. We are no longer vulnerable to the world. Therefore, a great calm, a great freedom comes to us. Out of our apparent loss of previous freedom- largely illusory as we have seen- we now receive a divine gift, the true freedom of a spiritual state, a real freedom which some saints have called "The Great Liberation".

These two of many such examples depict what the susceptible "serf" will become if he/she stays in Sahaj Marg long enough. The family, the son, the daughter, the pets, the friends will all become "unimportant" and "not like us"...

That is not what I call "spirituality" and if it has by "useage" become synonymous with "cult" of this sort then we who still are seeking the "spirit" in things will have to change the name of our path again. At one time, it was a "religious" path and then "spiritual" and now ?????

Any Suggestions of a name that would be the ALL of include everyone and everything??

LOL Just a thought...

Keep on the Sunny Side of Life..
This too will pass...

You gotta laugh cause it's not funny!!

Don

Michael said...

Don,

Sadly, in your meticulous research, you have seized upon more incriminating documentation in the SRCM literature. I am shocked by how far away this is from what I thought I joined in 1979!

In spirituality, one must contend with the the ego, at the same time, deal with feelings of separateness from God, and the alienation comes with feeling separate from God.

The spiritual path is a precarious path between these two extremes. Spiritual systems must contend with the conflicting challenges of these two poles.

According to your research, SRCM now claims to deal with the Ego by having it submit completely to the Master, nullifying it. In its place is a sense of "belonging" through the merging with the infallable Master.

This is the metaphysical equivalent of taking a high voltage source and shorting it directly to ground. It seems that SRCM would have you believe that by shorting the poles to each other, the problem is solved. The source of the energy does not go away, however. I will comment in my main blog as to where I think this energy goes.

The prospect of "unshorting" this connection is what has caused some to have serious psychological and spiritual issues after leaving the mission - not to mention the psychological and spiritual issues it has created for those who have half heartedly submitted to this process!

Sadly, this misses what the true spiritual path is all about, at least the one that Lalaji and his tradition taught - Dealing with the contradictions of being an individual having ego, and being part of creation, part of God. It is supposed to be a path of where these two polar aspects in one's existence are explored through living the life before you. Nature is supposed to have already provided the path for you to take to resolve these contradictions. The keys to the contradictions have traditionally been found through acts of love, charity, sacrifice, and learning to forgive others, and ones self - only to discover in the end that the core of our existence has always been divine.

SRCM appears to want a short cut from having to actually live one's life to learn these lessons - and as a result, possibly never learn these lessons at all! How is this a "Natural Path"?



Michael

4d-Don said...

Hi Michael..

You've hit the proverbial nail on the head. This "living through the Master" as a "living dead" is what got to me back in the Babuji days also. The Raja Yoga aspect of the eight-fold path without the "tapas" (austerities" is what got me to call this "Natural Path" about as near to the Truth as MacDonald is to organic or "food value"...MacDonald, as a capitalist organization, so responding to the "public" will change before groups as "SRCM" who respond to a Structure, an "OLD FART" and the THE ONE (in the mind at least), will change about as fast as other religions. It will take centuries or millenia.

The odd thing in all this is that I have been reading the Qu'ran and other Muslim books because I heard that the reason it is growing so fast is because it is an "intellectual" religion. After reading a little, I now see that is an "intellect manipulating" religion and a very good one. After reading some of the Material, I thought that I would like for God to ask me to "kill those who DISAGREE with ME, and the Holy Book (the infidels).

That sure by-passes the intellect and hence can justify the claim of "controlling the intellect" and being "intellectual" but it is a form of "giving in" or "surrendering" much as Sahaj Marg writes about "Freedom" as something to "give" up so as to "receive" the heavenly induced reward of "real freedom" in "obedience to the Master" and now the "MISSION"....

SCARY when the "dull witted" join this as become the "foot soldiers" for the "manipulative elite" who claim to interpret God or the Holy Books....

I hope we are not too late to stop the next "global Wars" of Religions..

Thanks for your comments and your analysing this in your "article" on your blog....You are a "saint"...LOL

Don...

T.E. said...

Hi Don and Michael,

I was out on the web trying to see if I could locate your blogs my any means other than thru Wikipedia--I couldn't. (I believe those links were your idea, Don, were they not? If so, nice move.) In the process, I came across an ex-member site for a Sahaja yoga organization--many similiarities to the SRCM. This site was very good at describing how one gets hooked and the resulting consequences, as I have suggested that you do. Please visit the site. It is www.Sahaja-Yoga.org. Instead of blogs, have either of you considered actual web-sites. Perhaps that would make a difference as far as your site appearing in a search engine. As it is, when Inner Circle of SRCM is typed in, it only shows up thru Wikipedia.

T.E.

Michael said...

TE,

Yes, I've considered moving to a website. It is more important for me right now to complete the Analysis section of my "Lessons In Power" article. I am, in part putting that off because my thoughts are evovolving as I engage on this and other blogs with people such as yourself, Don and Christian.

Once that is done, I would consider posting it on a more searchable website - but don't seem to feel the urgency to do it at this time.

Michael

Christian said...

Comments from Christian on that series of posts hidden in the depth of Michael's blog (Michael, I suggest you find a structure of your blog where we find the last discussions for sure):

"Isn't it strange that we did not chose to follow Sister Theresa or other "humanitarian" instead of Ram Chandra and Sahaj Marg" (Don)
Sister Theresa is not offering you to become god. She is doing the dirty job.

"SRCM only wants Abhyasis to give money and time to the organization. This, has always disturbed me." (Anonymous)
What has disturbed you is just the contradiction between the blabla and the actions.
Forget the speech, and concentrate on the actions.
Actions are the language of truth, but beware: those guys are clever, and they are now moving in manipulating the language of actions too.
So, keep an eye on contradictions, and understand what they mean.

"no one is ever forced to do it." (other Anonymous)
If you are not happy: no one is ever forced to do it.
Sounds like a confession to me, however!

"the money will leave your pockets and go to the Mission's very deep pockets and your time will be spent with them at the cost of the planet, family, friends, the poor, the needy, the sick, etc..." (Don)
Sure!
I'm now reading the series of posts and discovering their contents: I hope that other Anonymous will not deny it!

"When a Pop Idol puts out a product, he/she does not "demand" that the "fan" buy the product but the fan who wants to please his idol or "be in", buys it anyway. It's called "commercialism", and it works." (Don)
One of the processes, manipulating the individual desire.
Of course, with a pop star, no one is ever forced to do it!
But the pop star gets very rich...

"Spiritual Psychiatry" (Don)
What a curious association of words when you come to think about it.
In the theoretical discourse at the SRCM, they say that spirituality has nothing to do with psychology.
So... One more contradiction?

"By the way! Why is Chari not receiving the messages from Babuji himself, is he not "sensitive"? Is he not in contact with Babuji? Is this new medium now the "representative of Babuji"..." (Don)
Why is he not receiving the messages from his master?
Because he is an impostor.
Is this new medium now the representative of Babuji?
Of course not: first, she is a woman. Second, the messages can't be from Babuji one second, they are so stupid!

"May you find true spirituality which means "going inside" not to the "Mission" which is "outside". or the Guru which is "outside", Inside is you and God, not you and "Chari as God"." (Don)
Chari is loosing people on a wrong way, where he has lost himself.
I met an ex-preceptor recently (who leaved completely the SRCM), and she told me that she cannot criticize Chari for his acts, because she was very close to him. However, she told me what her feelings were for this man: a lot of pity, because he lost the way.

"You seem to have had some bad experiences with Sahaj Marg, but I caution you against stereotyping your experiences and observations as being true for everyone else who has participated in the organization. I have been in Sahaj Marg for a few years now." (TE)
You have not been there long enough to notice it is a dead end.

"In my few years in the practice, not only has no money been demanded or asked of me, but on the contrary, it has been made clear that it is no object whatsoever--that it's my being at the gatherings that is important, not my money." (TE)
That's an interesting testimony. Where do you live?
What you mention is not happening anymore in a lot of countries where the agenda is more advanced.
You should come there to know what future is awaiting you.

"To this date, I have attended several gatherings and have not paid a single penny to do so. In truth, it cost the Mission money for me to attend because I used the facilities and ate the food that was provided." (TE)
You must know that the monney you are enjoying was given by others.

"It hasbeen made clear to me that I am in control--that I can slow things down or even stop them as I choose. And I have fully utilized this freedom, as I may take sittings every week, or not show up for several months and I know that I am not the only one from my area to do so." (TE)
What you describe is the Sahaj Marg I knew.
You maybe have the chance to be with a 30 years preceptor, who is probably enlightened? (question)
You must convince yourself that you are trully lucky, and appreciate this precious gift.
I can assure you that what you describe is an exception, and it is not anymore a reflect of the global policy at the SRCM.
Please, have deeper discussions with your preceptor about the drifting of the SRCM.

"while there are certainly a number of things about the Mission and its Voice with which I simply do not agree" (TE)
However...
The awakening always starts like that, continue.

"It definitely has it's faults, but the Mission, and even Chariji for that matter, cannot be held entirely to blame." (TE)
Finally...
Why don't you continue?
Finally, you should be telling us yourself what we are describing in our analyses.
You say that Chari can't be held entirely to blame.
That's the error people will do systematically because of the structure of the SRCM and of the dogma.
Chari is the top of a pyramidal structure, a top concentrating political or decisional power, spiritual power, and teaching power.
He is the president, the one who decides and gives the directions.
He is the only one responsible, and at all the 3 levels of power.
But he claims being not responsible of anything when directly asked with explanations, because he obeys his master.
In the same time, he admits with the publication of whispers being not in direct contact with his master.
So, if he does not receive messages from his master, how can he obey to his orders?
He is an impostor.

"A good chunk of that lies with the individual abhyasis. People may be getting used, but they're not only standing in line for the opportunity, they're practically fighting each other for it." (TE)
Chari is using the tendencies of the human nature well.
The system is driving people to behave like that, so don't blame them, they are just victims, of themselves as well as of the SRCM.

"I'm as put off with the behavior of abhyasis in Chariji's presence as I am with any questionable views or methods of the Mission or Chariji. And it's not as if anyone was subjected to extreme brainwashing or anything--it's totally thier choice if they want to fork over $10,000 for an autographed copy of a children's book or mob Chariji like he's some famous pop star and they're a bunch of fanatical teen-aged groupies." (TE)
But you are just shifting the problem away!
Isn't it a real problem if what you describe only happens?
And you say it: it happens in Chari's presence!
He lets it happen!
Ask yourself what can be his interests?

"Did you introduce anyone else to the Mission? Did you defend it? Did you "proselytize", or sell the Mission or Sahaj Marg to anyone?" (Don)
Don is correct: the monney you receive appears like a generous gift of the organisation!
Just see it as an investment.

"There are 75,000 such Gurus in India waiting to pounce on our cultures, targeting our women and children." (Don)
An interesting point: the population of the SRCM abhyasis is 1/3 men, 2/3 women.

"Chari just arranged another wedding of a European woman 23 yrs, to an Indian man of 26, unknown to her.
Oh! it will be a "spiritual" union." (Don)
Or a spiritual disaster.
People who marry with Chari are said that Chari links their souls for eternity, and now it is impossible for them to part!!
What links souls is blod, nothing else (hope this sentence will be understood).

"GOD IS MALE, Nature is Female" (Don)
Babuji said God is nothingness.
It seems that Nature is male AND female.

"I always refer to him as "Chariji", not "Master", because I have never felt comfortable with him, the things he says, or the direction that the Mission seems to be leading some people in under his direction." (TE)
TE, while reading what you say, I truly appreciate you.
I was a little harsh in my previous comments to you because I first thought you were that usual kind of formated mind, excuse me.
Writing what I have just quoted from you is a sure sign that you are sensitive enough to go to the reality.
Please, continue to observe very attentively.
Finally, you will wake up.

"Why Chariji was chosen as his successor, I have no clue." (TE)
At the ISRC, they say that he was choosen as successor for the president position, not as the spiritual representative.
Consequently, it was a real mess, but Chari kept his goal in sight and succeeded - if we can call this a success.

"I doubt that Babuji was a fool." (TE)
Babuji was a human being.
He was weak in his old age, and he needed help.
Chari was there, Babuji needed him for his task.
Things went on very naturally.

"there is only one who has been in human form that I would consider giving myself over to completely and that is Jesus." (TE)
I have exactly the same feeling.
I had my deepest spiritual experiences with him.

"As for the stuff about the "rock star" atmoshere--I agree that Chariji should be speaking out against such behavior" (TE)
OK! But why doesn't he speaks? Why?

"if Jesus were to appear on earth tomorrow, do you not think that people would behave the same way around him?" (TE)
After what they did to him the first time, he would be a fool to come back!
But more seriously, do you believe one minute it can happen???
Death is trully what it is.
If Jesus was to come again, he would probably not be a public man, which is not needed at all for doing a spiritual work.
If a public Jesus was to appear, it would really create the behaviour you describe, which would be one more proof that the man is an impostor.

"the all-powerful doctor give them a pill, or the all-powerful Chariji to send some pranahuti thier way and make everything all better. No, Sahaj Marg/SRCM/Chariji is not totally responsible for the behavior of abhyasis" (TE)
Sorry to say, but Chari is maintaining people actively in ignorance.
This allows him a better control, because people are maintained that way in dependency.
You will need to see things deeper if you are to understand that the people you criticize are the victims of the system.
You are correct, they want the all-powerfull guy take them in charge completely, but that's what he offers to do.
And that's why the SRCM grows.

"Sahaj Marg should be a tool to assist one in thier spiritual quest, not a wheel chair to bring them all the way because they aren't willing to get off thier butts and walk the path themselves." (TE)
Trully, you need few more years there to see with your own eyes.

"True, Chariji has done nothing to stop it from going there, and has maybe even encouraged it" (TE)
So, stop there and observe.
Why putting a BUT just after?
To escape?
It is important that you ask to yourself why Chari has encouraged things going that way.
Have you read my blog poxysrcm?
There are few analyses which could help you in your reflection.

"I guess maybe I have the advantage in that I'm already convinced that this is not my last visit to this lovely planet" (TE)
So, you misinterpreted past memories as a proof of rebirth?
You should better be responsible for doing what you have to in the only one life that you will ever have.

By the way, you gave a letter in hand to Chari concerning the drifting of the SRCM, what did he answered, if he only did?

"It (working on one's character) is probably the only thing that I am aware of that Chariji has said that I would agree with, because as I see it, we are not physical beings with a spirit, but rather we are spiritual beings experiencing a physical existence." (TE)
We are physical and spiritual beings, not spiritual beings in a body or bodies containing a spiritual being. It is one.
The work on the character is the best thing to have people centered on their navels.
There is no methodology to do it at the SRCM, therefore it is a catastrophy.
Please, read my blog.

"Physical existence is one form of a spiritual state of being." (TE)
Form is spirit.
The freemassons have understood it well.
Therefore, the way we manage forms on earth, and especially the social organisations, will create a nice spirit or a bad one.
The correct management of forms will create heaven on earth.
We are far from it, and I fear for France because it has created the wrong forms, causing hell on earth.

"I don't go in for this idea that you can act like a jerk your whole life yet still be magically ushered out of the wheel just because you meditated and said a prayer every day. That idea is absurd" (TE)
Of course it is absurd, but if it works for having thousands of people in your business, why not use it?
It is obvious that Chari and his SRCM are not after taking people to spirituality, but to develop the business as far as possible.

"So you see, not everyone in Sahaj Marg is a Mission peddling, foot-kissing, brainwashed "Judas goat"." (TE)
If you are speeking of yourself, you must prepare yourself to leave the SRCM.
Actually, you will grow in one direction that is not possible with keeping you in the mission.
They are many in your case.
It is the constant turnover phenomenon which I have spoken about in my blog.
The constant filtering of the people, used for the development of the agenda.

"It seems that YOU (to Don) are the one trying to gather blind followers" (TE)
Don is my new guru now, he can guide you too.

"Other members from my area seem to also have a laid-back, non-fanatical approach to Sahaj Marg as well." (TE)
I guess that the preceptor is important to not poison the mind of his pupils with toxic ideas. I told you, you are very lucky.

"However, I will admit that my preceptor has expressed some of his ways of thinking that have shocked and bothered me." (TE)
Don't know how long you have been there - maybe not enough.

"Something my preceptor said was one of the things that I put in that letter to Chariji and questioned how it is that Sahaj Marg could be producing people that thought that way, and was that way of thinking not contrary to what was truly needed for spiritual growth. (Of course, I did not receive a response)." (TE)
AH! You say it!
You did not receive an answer, of course.
So, now, I suggest that you do as I did at one moment: test directly the summit of the pyramid.
Now you are just thinking you know that summit.
You only know it from what you can see of it from the botom...
This point of view is not allowing a clear vision of the truth!

"if they follow the Sahaj Marg rituals and methods, then they'll be graciously freed from samsara without having to do the real work necessary to earn thier way out." (TE)
And, if they question the authority of the master, the only one able to take them out, they will be lost here for ever.
Who would be foolish enough to do so, with such ideas in mind?
It is the spiritual suicide Chari loves to warn about in his talks.
The spiritual suicide's menace is one more manipulative trick, that I do not hesitate to compare to terrorism.

"No system is perfect, especially considering that it is human beings that comprise the organizations that utilize the systems" (TE)
The main problem with the SRCM is that the process of democratic criticism has not its place.
Because of the absence of criticisms, unbalance is the only natural possible development, which is already driving the SRCM to its loss.
The belief that Chari receives his instructions from his master, from above, from god, makes what he does necessarily correct and not to be criticised.
Because of that, and because Chari has all the powers in the SRCM, just analyse for yourself the different fears that rise in you at the idea of calling the master into question.
Please, do the exercice for yourself.
You may even imagine that having such thoughts will alert him because he knows everything about you, and you should have some troubles on your way to heaven.

"I do agree that warnings should be out there concerning Sahaj Marg, but I think those warnings may be more useful if they described the traps that an unquestioning or spiritually "too eager" of a person may fall into, particularly considering the current leadership of the SRCM." (TE)
So, TE, go read my blog, and then let's start a discussion.
You are the one who can give another taste to that warning.

"They've created the concept of the Central Region. Where's the proof of its existence other than the word of the Master? Regardless, 100s of thousands of abhyasis have become completely dedicated to achieving it, believing that their Master will take them there if they only submit to him. Not much different than paying $10,000 to teleport to France for lunch with the "healer" is it?" (Michael)
This central region is the infinite, the nothingness, etc.
I'm always surprised from discussions with the abhyasis.
They want to reach the goal.
So I ask: "what is the goal?"
After a long discussion, I always take them to admit: "I don't know"
But it is a long process in which you must be very very patient.
Of course, they don't, no one knows.
It is "swimming towards the infinite".
But what does it mean?
The central region is the perfect goal for a sect: a point within rings or circles.
A perfect confinement of the mind.
That was the elaborative work of Babuji.

"And after the Master informs you that you've achieved the Central Region" (Michael)
Does it happens????

"Spirituality is about "being"." (Michael)
Yes!
And achieving a goal is about possessing.
Nice kind of spirituality we have in the SRCM!

"If Lalaji's Truth Eternal hasn't been banned or taken out of print you can read how he describes the spiritual journey leading us back to a nearly identical state of ignorance that we started with. Babuji hinted that it was as simple as "turning your head from here to there"." (Michael)
However, the journey seems not that simple when you read Babuji.
One more contradiction?

"Master expressly forbid idol worship." (Don, quoting SRCM materials)
What about the pictures of the masters?
I prefer the approach of the ISRC: no pictures, only the ten commands on the walls.
You can just choose not to put your glasses and it's fine!

"I believe that any abhyasi who says, "my preceptor" when talking about the preceptor who is serving him has fallen into this form of idol worship. Here it is the preceptor who has been transformed into an idol, or idolised." (Don, quoting SRCM materials)
So, Chari is saying that this behaviour is idolatry.
What about the behaviour of the abhyasis with the master?
Is it something else?
But he does not criticise it of course.
He would probably do if he was not the idol.

"I was out on the web trying to see if I could locate your blogs my any means other than thru Wikipedia--I couldn't." (TE)
That's curious.
If I search google with poxysrcm or srcmverolee, I get them directly, and I even get the blog of Elodie.

Christian said...

Hi,

I have found some links in educative organisations (universities?) where the SRCM is planting seeds:

http://sta.umbc.edu/orgs/sahajmarg/index.html
http://www-scf.usc.edu/~meditate/
http://cyberbuzz.gatech.edu/Raja-Yoga-Meditation/
http://meditation.tamu.edu/MasterBirthday.htm
http://www.naturalpathmeditation.org.vt.edu/links.html

Don, what do you think?

4d-Don said...

Hi Christian...

I thank you for the "Joking" compliment above...I will not take it "seriously"..

I can assure you that I would rather be a fellow "sojourner" or fellow pilgrim in a "side by side" relationship rather than an "up and down", 3-d, square-based, pyramidal structure of Master and Serf relationship as in the SRCM MISSION.

But if we can all be taking shifts being the "guide" (according to our qualities and disciplines) as in the form of an 3-d equilateral tetrahedron where all the vertices are of equal importance, and that moves in a spiral motion as a paradigm of the "Guide (the servant) and the fellow "sojourner", who as the "pilot", the "engineer", the "cook", etc... is and are the real "boss" or "decision maker" on the Safari of Life, then I will accept in humility, my "destiny" to be the "guide" SOMETIMES...not for ever and not in "everything" as in Sahaj Marg, where the Master is the Master of "every" aspect of the "serf's" life. That is SLAVERY and at best a THEOCRACY not spirituality....

I want a "spiritual" democracy where the Master or "guide", who is also a "friend", can be removed by the loving and compassionate Stucture in which the guide is only a "temporary" guide fulfilling a "temporary" duty. If anyone is to become a Master, one of the many tests will be that he/she not express "emotions" or "power", at being removed of the "duty" of being a "guide" or "apparent" leader but is really only a "point-man" as opposed to a "side-man", but will take on other necessary duties with the "energy" of love and acceptance. Such is the duty to meditate and shine the light on the PATH! One can only be a Master through duty, as a servant, not as a "President", by "suing" the pants off your fellow pilgrims or a Mafia "Godfather" and "knocking off" the competition or "ignoring" through ignorance the problems and the lessons and successes of your "brothers and sisters" (as in SRCM).

Chari, is a nationalist, an empirialist and a Brahmin and is "full of desires" and the desires are not "spiritual" but "material", so they corrupt. So he is not a good example of how to become a spiritual "Master" as he is not one. (by his own admission)

I want his history to reflect what he tried to get others in the world to "get rid" of but that he did not get rid of himself, him and the others of the Management Team (Brahmins?). That is their "culture" (which they promotes constantly as superior), their religious roots (not Sahaj Marg or Raja Yoga of spirituality but the Brighter World (heaven?) of Hinduism, Vaishnava and Spiritualism), and Political Power. Power to be used by the few of the "inner circle" for the benefit of a few empirialist materialists. I do not want their history to say that they "emanated" the energy of love and compassion that would put a "human Life" before a "structure", such as the SRCM Mission. If Chari wants to ask other to disregard their culture, religion and nationality, then his, the Master and President, and the Management team should lead the way.
That means the inclusion and empowering of many disempowered groups in SRCM as in the East Indian culture. Please, not just "tokenism". That includes women, males of different cultures, gays, Sufis and other religions, etc...
These are all welcomed as "serfs" in Sahaj Marg but will never be Masters. And if they become or are Masters, as in Lalaji's case, then the Morality of the honesty of Raja Yoga should be brought up if the truth about the source of their Mastership or their lineage is "defamed". You will know them who defame and dis-empower others. To quote Shakespeare: "They doth Protest too much"!! And scream: "Freedom of Religion" and "Democracy", or "racism". By their Fruit (and their words), we will know them!!!

This is levity...

Be weary of those who make claims of humility in their speeches and who write their own "autobiography". Nothing wrong with autobiographies but it is a service to the writer and not to the "brothers and sisters". I will proclaim Christian and Michael as "Saints" so you at least can say that "others have said it about me:.....", rather than I said it about myself. Do not make claims to represent God now...Just Don!..LOL (end of levity)

But thanks for the "compliment".
I will write in on my wall as you do not "dish out compliments" very often!! (to quote you..LOL)

Chari once said in a speech that: Babuji is a Master of Spirituality, I am a Master of Humanity!!!...I think that says it all, and from his own mouth. How can you lead a "spiritual" group and not be a "spiritual Master"??

I think that most followers of Sahaj Marg are trying to control the MIND through a modified Raja Yoga (Yoga of the MIND), without using all the tools of the Mind at their disposal, such as the "intellect". Raja Yoga in its original form does not get lost in the materialism of Power because of the re-focussing on the outer world through "service" to others and on some "moral" qualities such as "honesty" that Sahaj Marg lost a long time ago with the Sufi lineage scandal and the "idolatry" and other questions of "philosophy" that Chari says does not exist in Sahaj Marg. I did exist in Raja Yoga. Sahaj Marg serves itself (the Mission) and the abhyasis in my "neck of the woods" much like their Master. They are not the "do gooders" in the community, helping the poor and the sick, the homeless, but they want to be thought of as "helping the world". Chari and Sahaj Marg wants the car of Raja Yoga (Yoga of the MIND) Spirituality to run after Sahaj Marg (Chari) takes out all the attributes that make it run towards the ONE of Union with all other "great spiritual philosophies" such a Raja Yoga.

I think that most followers do not read the Written Material as they are kept busy with the duty of "obeying the Mission and the Master"
In the litterature on the Methods used by cults, one is "words will have a meaning for the "insiders" and a meaning for those "outside" the group. That is what Sahaj Marg is doing. It is creating "divisions" by writing contradictory statements that the outsiders get "up in arms" about and that the "insiders" defend as "meanding something else"...That is what a Master of Humanity would do...

Sahaj Marg is not Raja Yoga and is not spirituality. With the drifting from the concept of the "central region" to the "Brighter World", Sahaj Marg is "Spiritualism" and the leader (or the Message) is not the Medium!!! (a twist (bad joke) on Marshall Mcluhan?? "the Medium is the Message"

Thank you to Christian, Michael and TE for a great stimulus for my little Raja Yoga MIND...

Keep on the Sunny Side of LIFE

Don

T.E. said...

Hi Christian,

To begin with, I think it would be helpful if you read all that I have to say first, instead of picking it apart by bits and pieces--you might get a better picture of where I'm coming from if you did. To make it easier for you to understand where I stand, I'll summarize it for you now:

I have no need to leave the SRCM because, as I have stated, I do not consider myself to be a part of it. What I have seen of it, I do not like--not from Chariji, not from the abhyasis. I loosely practice Sahaj Marg, which I consider to be a spiritual tool to assist me in achieving understanding and behaviors which help me to be a better person, which is what I consider to be fundamental to our purpose here on earth. I know that the work that must be done to achieve any spiritual growth/growth as as human being must be done by me and that there are no shortcuts to "enlightenment". I believe that the ultimate goal is to shed the ego, and if you hold "enlightenment" or any such thing as the goal, then you will totally miss the mark, because having such a goal puts the focus on achieving something for ones-self, which obviously is contrary to shedding the ego. Yes, I am lucky to have a preceptor that does not try to lead me in the direction that many have been led, and I had stated that I consider myself fortunate for that. Sahaj Marg for me has basically been about meditation. I was not given any instruction on what I should be doing in the sittings (it was only in looking around on the SRCM site that I discovered that I was suppose to be concentrating on my heart or something, but I never have). This has been an important factor for me, as this has allowed the meditations to be what is most useful, and I have come out of many of them with greater insights, understandings, perspectives, and peacefulness. The discussions between myself and my preceptor have always been as would normally occur between friends and have not been about Mission philosophy. In fact, I had never even heard of the Central Region before this blog. Unlike you, Christian, I firmly believe in reincarnation, and I have not come to this conclusion lightly, as I'm sure you have not lightly come to your conclusion that we each have only one life. But this point has nothing to do with the SRCM, and I hope that we can simply agree to disagree on this issue. I whole-heartedly agree that there is a severe problem with the SRCM, and that many people are get suckered into something that, if anything, is probably stunting thier spiritual growth. I have seen evidence of this in some of the behaviors and thoughts of my preceptor, (and of others) who is far from enlightened. He seems to be an odd mix of Babuji's Sahaj Marg and Chariji's corruption; of free-thought and blind following. For him, the goal is to not have to come back in future lifetimes, and he sees serving as a preceptor as his ticket out. He does not do it for the abhyasis, he does it for himself, and he has stated such. This I consider to be a view fostered by the SRCM/Chariji, and one with which I certainly don't agree. However, I also don't blame the SRCM/Chariji for everytime he behaves like an insensitive jackass. If we are to blame the behaviors and ways of thinking that some abhyasis display under the "guidance" of the Mission totally on the Mission/Chariji, then musn't we also blame the acts of every child molestor who were themselves molested, every wife beater who were themselves abused, etc. not on the individual committing the crime, but on thier abusers? And what if those abusers had been abused? To whom does the blame belong? Yes, people that are influenced by the SRCM/Chariji often display poor behaviors in one form or another that often result in unhappiness for those around them, but one cannot be held blameless for thier own actions, and if the system tells them that they can, then it is thier choice to refuse responsibility for themselves and give it instead to someone else. There are four of us here who all agree that the SRCM/Chariji is not right in its ways. Why do we see this while others don't? Because we question things and excercise our right to think for ourselves. Although the SRCM/Chariji is slick in its methods, it is the choice of the individual to hand over authority for thier own lives to another human being. And it's not as if this action is without its own selfish intents--perhaps driven by a desire to not have to take responsibility for ones-self?
Furthermore, I am not afraid to question Chariji, and as I said elsewhere in this blog, I have even done so.
It is sad to see what some people have become, ways that they behave under Mission "guidance". But the SRCM is not alone in its ways--there are many cults, corporations, and individuals out there waiting to do the exact same things to those who let them. So what I think is best said to all the people of this world is don't let them! Question everything, think for yourelf, and take responsibility for yourself. Hold the selfless ones such as Jesus , Ghandi, and Mother Theresa as examples and be good to others. Hold this, above all, as the goal.

T.E.

4d-Don said...

Christian

Two Points...

I have sent most of them (the University Newspapers or Sites) an-e-mail (the ones that had a contact number) many of these papers are run by very fiew people who write themselves and join or know someone who joined the group so you can't get much action from them...

I tried to send one to the Editor, the journalist and the commercial newspaper in the area. Most don't want to disgruntle their advertisers so do nothing until it becomes a scandal. So for most "newspapers", what you have to do is as a Press Release and write the "story" for them so they can just drop in in and/or quote from in another "story"....

Anyone can send them a letter and it would sound like a "movement"...

Keep on truckin...

Don

PS. The game with the Book and the Concept of the "spiritualism" of "Whispers from the Brighter World" is the "secrecy" around who is the "MEDIUM". The secret is a "manipulative" tool used by the "master of humamity"...or Master of Deception, or the Master of Disaster!

So, a la Marshall McLuhan, The secret of "who is the MEDIUM" is the Message!! Or the Message you will only get if you are "closer" to the "inner circle"...THE SECRET LOL

You can only hide a secret in 3-d and/or in a higher dimension than your current level of awareness of consciousness...In 4d, the hiding places are in the 5th dimension, beyond our current consciousness or awareness. No "hiding place" are safe in 3-d from a 4-d consciousness and one cannot make a "knot" in any dimensions higher than 3-d.
And the past and the future, the potential hiding places, are expanded into and our consciousness becomes aware of more of it (SPACE/TIME).

To Quote James Clerk Maxwell, 1830's formulator of the electromagnetic theory! and the n...dimensions of space:

"in n...dimensions, we fleurish unrestricted"

So Chari cannot go there!!! We, all of us go there at our "right" time to quote Chari, the Master of Humanity!!He would have to go to School!!!or become spiritual are expand his awareness of a Brighter World where one life is SACRED!!!More sacred than a structure. That is what we all believe and that we all want the structures we support and belong to, to adhere to. And we could spend our time doing that, not building Sructures of Material where Power games are the Saturnian (Father TIME) Time Devourer that has replaced Zeus (the king of the Greek Pantheon) now rules!


Could we get a Medium to tell us who the Medium of Whispers from the Brighter World is? That would be some joke eh? I might affect the person who is the Medium but should that person's "anonymity" be protected? If she is use to ensnare others in their deception, should she not be called to task....SRCM is using her "talents"...Are these talents to be used for the benefit of a few and not for all of humanity Are they from the Divine or from The Ego? If one knows the secret, should all? Is there a preferred few who only should know.? In the case of Chari, the Messages are to his benefit, should he be the one to make the decision as to the "secrecy of the Medium". Does anyone know a Medium....I am sure that the one who quote Lalaji, and have a "spiritualism" commercial web site would love to make a go at it!! LOL Just joking!!! (Christian you know who I mean)...Jolly or something...

Back to spirit...

Spirit, as a rarefied form of energy or matter lasts longer in TIME (the imaginary) than Energy or Matter (the illusion) and has a higher frequency as well as a lower frequency than energy and/or matter. Where TIME goes to the "infinite", Spirit goes to the "eternal". Eternal being "SPACE" or BEING rather than TIME and Becoming. So the "Journey" rather than the "GOAL"!!

AMEN...LOL

Don...

Christian said...

Hi TE,
I have read all you have written on this page, if you have written elsewhere I don't have the information (you don't give me where to look).
I have even read between lines... and I continue if you permit me.
"Unlike you, Christian, I firmly believe in reincarnation, and I have not come to this conclusion lightly, as I'm sure you have not lightly come to your conclusion that we each have only one life."
I first interpreted my experiences as a proof of it, and also adopted that position.
Then I tried to investigate other explanations, and I have now another which satisfies me much because it takes into account other parameters.
Reincarnation is a simple belief.
"I believe that the ultimate goal is to shed the ego"
Well, you are at your true place in the SRCM, where the focus is ego, not god.

"For him (TE's preceptor), the goal is to not have to come back in future lifetimes, and he sees serving as a preceptor as his ticket out."
What do you think?
The fear from rebirth is a powerful manipulative tool.
So, 30 years and still so selfish?
"He does not do it for the abhyasis, he does it for himself, and he has stated such."
No doubt: he is sheding the ego, and his place is at the SRCM too.
"However, I also don't blame the SRCM/Chariji for everytime he behaves like an insensitive jackass."
Do I? That's his problem. I was working on these blogs (1) to understand what happened to me, (2) to free myself, (3) to let the others access these thoughts and start their own reflection. Your position is as the position of your preceptor. A curious mix between free thought and endoctrination. Probably that he has influenced you deeper than you think.
"If we are to blame the behaviors and ways of thinking that some abhyasis display under the "guidance" of the Mission totally on the Mission/Chariji, then musn't we also blame the acts of every child molestor who were themselves molested, every wife beater who were themselves abused, etc. not on the individual committing the crime, but on thier abusers?"
First, we don't blame, we expose and try to understand. I told you that the abhyasis and even the preceptors are prisoners of a system of mind manipulation.
Second, why we don't blame every injustice: it is not the purpose. You are operating a shift, that's a common practise to avoid being confronted to what we refuse to see.
"And what if those abusers had been abused? To whom does the blame belong?"
You will agree that it has to be stopped, or are you trying to justify things?
"but one cannot be held blameless for thier own actions, and if the system tells them that they can, then it is thier choice to refuse responsibility for themselves and give it instead to someone else."
I partly agree. The effects of manipulation are deeper than you think. When you are manipulated, you are just convinced to be right, and to be blamed does not change anything. Your approach of psychology is rough. Someone under influence will need years to get cured. It is not because some revolted person comes there blaming, that his mind will be freed instantaneously.
"Although the SRCM/Chariji is slick in its methods, it is the choice of the individual to hand over authority for thier own lives to another human being."
Yes, sure. But there is a ground that allows some individuals to look for such a situation. Not every human could be an abhyasi of the SRCM because of this. My question is: can they really make a choice? They are like a proper ground to put seeds, easy preys.
"Furthermore, I am not afraid to question Chariji, and as I said elsewhere in this blog, I have even done so."
Oh yes, in such a way that you never received your answer. Who do you think you are telling stories? By the way, why don't you call him Chari? Endoctrination and manipulation starts with words. Never forget: words structure what we are.
"It is sad to see what some people have become, ways that they behave under Mission "guidance". But the SRCM is not alone in its ways--there are many cults, corporations, and individuals out there waiting to do the exact same things to those who let them."
OK, that's definitely your structure to see the real: (1) ok problem SRCM (2) BUT (3) problems elsewhere.
One problem at a time, here we are concerned with the drifting of the SRCM. You see, you take their defense, they were right to put some investment on you.

Christian said...

Don,

I was just sending information.

I'm not interested in spreading a scandal at all cost. It is just interesting to see that the advertising is in the universities too. It seems there is no limits to the proselytism.

Concerning the medium, my own mediumnic power is so limited that I could only find the first letter of her first name, which is probably H (there are but so many people between Geneva and Montpellier that I fear some interferences have distorted the letter and the vision was finally not that clear).

It is not a secret at all at the SRCM, who she is. You know, the arab telephon is very efficient in the "brotherhood".
But I told you that I prefer let her out of this. She is a very sincere devotee and a very sensible person. All this would affect her very deeply and could affect her health too. The problem is the way she is used by the maffia. If you are to fight after something, don't fight the innocents.

T.E. said...

Michael, I want to say that I completely respect you, what you are doing and how you are doing it. You seem to truly be on a spiritual path and I am happy for you.
Don, You seem to have a good heart and mind yourself, and I hope that you will follow Michael's example as opposed to allowing yourself to be sucked in to Christian's very low way of thinking and behaving.
Christian, I can only pray for you. I thought of commenting further on your posts here and on your own blog, but clearly nothing gets thru to you except your own extremely hostile and abusive opinion. Clearly, anyone who does not agree with you or presents any evidence to suggest that you are wrong is, in your mind, just a brainwashed supporter of the SRCM. Hopefully, one day your hostility will settle down and you can engage in thoughtful, intelligent, and open-minded discussion with others. As for now, I can only say that the profound immiturity that you have displayed on these blogs not only does not serve your cause, but negates it. Maybe you could go find a terrorist organization to join--I believe they would welcome a person such as yourself on thier side.
Again to Michael, I hope you will pursue the idea of a web-site in order to get the message out to prospective abhyasis about the dangers of the SRCM before they go down the wrong path, as well as to assist those who are in the organization who may be starting to question things and need to know that others out there have done the same and that it is good to do so. I hope that you will outline the pitfalls(of SRCM)and thier resulting consequences in one's life in addition to stating the organizational problems and realities. It would also be nice to see links to other ex-member sites (from other cults) so that people can see the similiarities in how they operate and the effects that they can have on the involved individuals and thier families. I have enjoyed these conversations with you, Michael and Don, and I appreciate that you have helped me to see what I suspected was occurring with the SRCM/Chariji, but that I did not have a full realization of considering my limited exposure to such. With your intelligent and thoughtful presentation of material, and comfortable, open-minded discussions I'm sure your sites will be of benefit to others that may find them, and I know of one abhyasi in particular that I would like to try to direct toward you. I only hope that she does not also discover Christian's blog, as I'm sure his bitter and insultive rantings would only serve to drive her (and any other abhyasi)deeper toward the SRCM/Chariji.
I regret that this forum here has been fouled by such severe negativity and visciousness--it has certainly taken the enjoyment and potential for learning out of participation.
Best wishes to you both.

T.E.

Christian said...

Ha TE,

I am sorry of your reaction, but I will let your agressivity towards me belonging to you.
I just comment few things more.

"Christian, I can only pray for you."
If only you were in a condition for that... You are now speaking like Chari.

"Clearly, anyone who does not agree with you or presents any evidence to suggest that you are wrong is, in your mind, just a brainwashed supporter of the SRCM."
Wrong. If what you say is argumented and can be understood, the process of discussion will surely go on. I see no evidence presented in your arguments, sorry. You should try to be more explicit. I am very limited as you have noticed, so you need to argue with facts instead of arguing with certitudes and beliefs. Please don't criticise me before trying the discussion. I think I have shown you where there was some problem in the logics of your arguments, and because you pretend I have such problems of logics myself, it would be nice to help me. Furthermore, I would add that you use the usual abhyasi trick against the "ennemy", which is to shift things to a personnal attack. You can only try to touch me that way.

"Hopefully, one day your hostility will settle down and you can engage in thoughtful, intelligent, and open-minded discussion with others."
I am still waiting a valuable interlocutor. It seems to be long to come.

"I can only say that the profound immiturity that you have displayed on these blogs not only does not serve your cause, but negates it."
I have no cause. What do you think? That I am a kind of saviour coming here for someone? I am just a man trying to find my way.

"Maybe you could go find a terrorist organization to join--I believe they would welcome a person such as yourself on thier side."
Maybe they would appreciate you too! We were probably wife and husband in a past life, and the samskara is coming up?

4d-don said...

Hi TE..

Don't use this medium (the computer), as if it was "uni-dimensional"!! Since there is no real noise from other's comments but just a bunch of 0's and 1's. The idea that Christian stops you from having an "intelligent" conversation with Michael of myself is that Christian might comment and "disturb" does not work in a "virtual" and "imaginary" medium as is the information and the exchange of such information in the forms of letters made up of "on-switch", off-switch".

So please continue and create the world where "No one stands alone" as in the Spirituality of Raja Yoga (the Yoga of the Mind). We are in a virtual space outside of Time where one does not bother the other beside itself just by being there and "commenting" in an "irreverent" or "hostile" way. It's in the "logic" of it the the "ONE-ness" of it will surface not in the "going around or out of logic and into "faith" or "belief". The ONE has "Gem Quality" LOGIC as in the "LOGOS" of the early Greek.

The process of "exclusion" or "shunning" or "ignoring" what does not "read" well, using letters and words that they should not use, as they should "know better", being educated as they are, is not "controlling" the mind as it "hurts" you brother and rejects his "logic", so is an "insult". What he wants is a "engagement" as equals, not a "rejection", as if you were "superior"...That is very "Chari" and others who think that God is "so small" and "simple" that they can "sell" it and "represent" IT. But they are still words and not even sound but a series of 0's and 1's.

So thank you for you compliment, although it was un-intentionally, I trust, divisive as it was at Christian's expense and it is to him also that I say thank you also for the compliment. Logic and "faith/belief" is all we have...So let's use them all to pull us together, not to divide us....and to get to the realization that we are inside the ALL...

Safely tucked inside the ONE God where we live!!

Don

Anonymous said...

From She-wolf
Hello Don, Michael and Christian

After some months of being trying to save my family of SRCM severe advents I see you have been very active in you analysis and deep discussions.
I wanted to let you know that it has been very good to met you and to have your help and sympathy.
Even tough I have not your knowledge and deep reflexion on the matter my mind is clear and my feelings are honest and simples.
I finally realized ( thanks to all of you ) that my husband has been capture by this sect and that many ( not everyone ) of our problems came from that.
I have two different " professional advisors" one who is giving us marriage talks and other who is helping me to understand the sect.
This last one told me that not all the members of a sect have the same dependency and the only persons who can help in the coexistence and communication is their own family and their love. I have experienced progress in communication, recovering my husband time ( I needed to stop his fanatic pupil that was interfering even in our couple ! )

It is true that maybe some of the members of SRCM ( not the leaders ) have good intentions and they are trying to be and to do the best they can, but I have not seen in any of their replicas ( in this and in some other bogs ) how are they families, how are they sharing their "free" time with them , if they care about them, if they think in their needs and my answer is NO, they talk always about their progress as human beings, their illumination, their wellbeing ... and how about kids, wives, husband who don’t practice meditation??? Indifference, selfish and solitude… but you can always join us !!! is their only solution …( see 16th February, 2004 at the Inauguration of the Mysore ashram, Karnataka, INDIA
" because I know many houses where the father is the abhyasi, not the wife, not children, and for twenty years they don't change. If a man cannot influence his own wife to start Sahaj Marg, who else is he going to influence? I know wives are very difficult to manage, but that is female nature, you see, and we are here to change nature by starting with our own family first. "

Beleive me, Don must knows aboui it ...to have a husband/wife tired and exhausted for giving all their free time to the Mission , running here and there to give sittings, to see diminish our precarious budget in seminars, inviting people to travel to know the "master" to gain new adepts is not a simple job, and believe me it is not the way that any humane cult, religion or spiritual practice could suggest to have a happy life ... ( this is for your new guest TE ... who said SRCM is not about money and that every one in there are free)

Yes, my arguments are not so deep, are not so philosophical or spiritual but they came from the deep of my heart and I stand up for love, I stand up for my family, not here, not with my people, I wish this Chari, this "master" that criticize Christ so easily, who live in castles, who doesn’t make any charity, who tell histories about his miracles ( curiously after Pope Juan II was attack ) will have what he deserves, loneliness, fear and even compassion but he will not have my people , he will not own my beloved ones... love moves mountains, I have faith and I have God on my side;

All the best and thank you again

She-wolf

Michael said...

She-Wolf,

Your story and points made in this blog are perhaps THE most compelling as compared to the intellectual rants of people like myself.

You have stuck with the task of keeping your family together and understanding the influence of SRCM on your husband in order to reason with him. You have perservered where many of us would have given up and walked away.

I'm certain that your husband will someday understand your devotion to your family and will see the example of true sacrifice, forgiveness and spirituality in action under the very roof of his own home. He is lucky to have you.

All the best!

Michael

4d-Don said...

Hi She wolf...

I agree with Michael whole heartedly!
Reading you candid comment brought a tear to my eye. I wish my wife could have looked into the eyes of her grand-children and "seen the ONE God" and given them the money that was sucked from our lives by these "businessmen".

I have been saying for a long time now, that I see more spirittuality, compassion, love and caring coming out of the average person in Europe and North America than I have seen so far from this group of navel gazing "living deads" in Sahaj Marg.

All the conversations with them has been about "our ego", and "the need for money" of the Mission and the elevated status of their Master and Mission, but never to address the issues that are brought up and the situation with the people and their families. It seems that the ego is theirs, the concern for money is theirs also.

For myself, they cannot guilt me with money, I am poor and I share with the poor (food bank, and local charities), the cannot guilt me with spirituality, I am spiritual and communicate with the "ONE SPIRIT" daily in gratitude,(not as a beggar) they cannot guilt me with ego, as I have withstood the guilt of being a "sinner" by the Catholic Church and they are "Masters" of the art of guilt. I am now a Child of God, not more important than the blade of grass, and not "GUILTY", your honour!! LOL

I hope pray and trust that you and your husband will realize the ONE in side of one another and everyone around you, and that your children you come to know the struggle and the courage their mom has had to take on to save their family....

You are blessed!! I pray you will realize it!

You gotta laugh cause its not funny!
(It's easy to laugh when its funny, it's when it's not funny that one has to laugh).

I wish you many long hours of laughter and joy...You, your husband and children!! May your children be many....

4d-don

Christian said...

Hi She-Wolf!

Andrew said...

It is surely part and parcel of being human that one persons view is surely damned to be one sided. Therefore I frankly admit that like the rest of you, my view will not the the whole truth of the matter. Some background then...

I have spent 33 years in this form on various spiritual paths seeking my Beloved. To say that my search is over or nearing completion would be a lie... perhaps the road is endless. Nevertheless when one makes comparisons, as one must do, with fellow seekers, I can at least report some success. It is a fact that very early on in my meditation career I entered a state of trance, wherein breath stopped and I was unconscious to the outside world, whilst still being totally aware. An indescribable love...nay sympathy was felt for all other sentient beings, man or beast. Upon the dramatic return of breath this feeling of univeral love continued for some days. The same detached non emotional love, pity, sympathy, what you will was felt just as strongly for a bumble bee outside the window as was felt towards my beloved mother, working hard as always in the kitchen. I knew that never befor e had I been so much ALIVE, so much at peace and so detached from any personal feelings towards the world, whilst aware that I was not indeed separate from the universe.

Over the years I have had occassional glimpses reappear of this truly wonderful state of being, although none as powerful as the first. Many methods of meditation have I practised - from spending four years in a Chogye Buddhist monastery to several years of Kriya Yoga, having been initiated by a Bengali yogi in the Sri Yukteswar tradition. It has been the norm for me to sit at least four hours per day in dhyana.

You will note then, dear reader, that my experience of different styles of meditation is not limited. Therefore Michael I would firstly like to comment on your remark about the uniqueness of Sahaj Marg. For the past year I have indeed been an abhyasi in a little backwater someplace. And in that time I continue to be amazed by the level of peace that I feel during transmissions and the many stages/states I have undergone since trying out the system. The changes that have occurred in my behaviour have been remarkable - for all my years of meditation and searching I'm still no saint! Quick bouts of anger which I have always suffered from have melted into the abyss. Laziness has all but vanished and I sleep now for a mere 5 hours per night. Patience with those who are difficult to be around has increased ...I could go on. I say all this not with pride but to demonsrate to people that SM may not be all as bad as you people would make out. It may have its faults, I'm not denying that, but it seems its human nature to have faults - even jnanis and enlightened zen monks I have met are not withput ego and character flaws.

It has been said that all paths, no matter how narrow all lead to the same goal eventually, as long as the intention is genuine. The Lord will surely see that all His devotees find him in the end.
I find most of the comments on how childish, biased and in many cases incorrect. Others may well have truth to them.

"Feeding the poor is seen by Sahaj Marg as something that they do not do, they are into "spirituality". "
4d-don: Babuji also said it was our duty to care for our fellow human beings. A social worker who came to him was told that what he did was not social work at all - it was everyones duty. But he also stated that charity is not charity at all if it results in hardships to ones immediate family. Us souls living householder existences must indeed firstly look after those in our charge. Charity begins at home.
It also seems to me that many people misunderstand spirituality. The semitic world has overemphasized the 'do good to others'. This is indeed a noble thing but it will not result in the end of our suffering or in finding God, which should be the sole aim of spirituality. Christian conditioning has given us in the West the wrong notion. In the eastern school of thought actions good or bad result in more sanskaras and will not solve out problem. If we who are imperfect and full of negative emotions etc continue our current mode of life al we are doing is sending these vibrations out to a confused world thus adding the the confusion. Would it not be better to work on ourselves, so that hopefully one day we may see the world in a different light and know what to do to best help our fellow beings?
If you accept the philosophy of the Sanatana Dharma that the same Atman which is not separate from God himself resides in all bodies, then God is only inflicting this apparent suffering on himself.
Mother Theresa was indeed a noble soul, but I fear her life would not have resulted in the 'kingdom of heaven' spoken of by Jesus, where one can 'sit with my Father on the throne'... 'No man will ever see my face and live'. Living surely doesn't just denote physical existence - the reference here is to extinguishment of the Ego.
So while a life of selfless service is all very noble, unless one abandons the desire for the fruit of this action and surrenders oneself in toto to the Lord, the good words of Jesus of Nazareth have not been heeded.

Surely rather than wasting our time condemning religious organisations we would be better off putting our own house in order first. Tis indeed a very strange world my friends and from my own limited glimpses into Eternity, spirituality is even stranger than we might imagine. Best not to judge I think, when ones own sight is not perfect. I could surely follow your examples and let loose a few scathing comments on my experience with the Catholic Church Michael, but I would prefer to hold my breath.

Judge Not Least Ye Be Judged

There is SOOO much more could be said about comments on this blog, but these will have to wait for another time.
May God bless you all with his wonderful Spirit. AMEN

Michael said...

Andrew,

I have no quarrels with the practice of meditation that SRCM offers. I too felt peace practicing it. I've felt the same peace practicing meditation outside SRCM. Heart based meditation and prayer is not exclusive to SRCM however, nor is Chari the exclusive representative to the "Master of the Universe", has I have heard him claim to be.

I am glad that you found benefit. My blog is not here to address those such as yourself who are happy in the system. There are many who have run into issues with "Obedience to the Mission" and the many divergent agendas those involved with the Mission impose on others in the name of Obedience to the Mission.

In addition aspects of narcisism have entered in the practice of many, who believe that their personal spiritual progress can be achieved at the expense of others.

As for any criticism that you have of the Catholic Church, well, you might find me their worst critic, no need to compete with me there. At least my criticism is heard and I am not silenced unlike in SRCM. I remain involved only due to the association with certain Catholics, but have little patience for the hierarchy.

My point is that at least there is a legacy within Christianity that causes those who practice it to examine their behavior towards others. I am happy that you have found more patience with others practicing Sahaj Marg under SRCM, unfortunately, many to not foster this as evidenced by Preceptors forsaking their families, and the historical battles between the "highely evolved" members of the inner circle for control of the mission as evidenced by the ongoing law suits, and spin off organizations.

The concept of SRCM, being a light organization that promotes a heart based spiritual practice that is non-religious is a good one. The fact is that it has deviated from that and has become an organization like any other religious organization. Might as well join the Catholic Church...


Micahel

4d-Don said...

Hi Andrew...

Thanks for your comments...

You said:

Charity begins at home.
It also seems to me that many people misunderstand spirituality. The semitic world has overemphasized the 'do good to others'.


First you mention your state of "one-ness" and compassion for even the bee, how does that compassion and the one-ness express itself. Is it just "intellectual". Can you truly care and love your neighbour and let him/her die of starvation. What is the gauge of your spirituality, is it not "love, compassion, unity with all". It is not a Semetic concept as even the Hindus preach that the only true gauge of spirituality is "service to others". Sahaj Marg even tries at opportune times to preach it to it's abhyasis.

You do not know if Sister Theresa will go to heaven, or any other adherents of other religions for that matter but you repeat the "uncaring, ungenerous, rantings of others who even call themselves and each other "not generous" as Chari said of Babuji. You do not also know if Chari is "God realized" or not. To reflect nature as the Sun or the forces would be to give "generously" as the sun or the wind or the rain and not be "stingy" or "self serving". That is the true "Natural Path" that Sahaj Marg claims is "unique" to itself.

Charity begins at home until the SRCM wants to have "charitable status" so as to be "tax exempt" and then they claim to be "the most generous". Then Charity is "very important". Is that not "two faced"? It is not the indivudual abhyasi that we want to become "charitable" on these blogs, although that would make a "better world", it is the structure who is asking for "charitable status" by law that we want to "walk the walk" not just "talk the talk". They gather money and build Ashrams and buy castles in Europe. Is not the life of the starving child that you feel "at one" with in your meditation not important? Is a "temple" more important than that (a life)? If one is going to preach the "simple life" one should walk the simple life. How many houses does one need when so many have nothing to eat?

The arrogance of those who claim to "know God" and represent God contribute to a "densing" of the population much like the concept of "God is male", "women cannot be Masters", and even the use of "OMEGA" in the Lalaji Memorial OMEGA School"....Why OMEGA? The ONE (God) is not OMEGA, neither was Lalaji, the Sufi lineage history of whom SRCM is "denying"... In physics, Omega represent the "denseness of the Universe" (ie how many atoms per cubic meter). In Christianity God is the Alpha "AND" the OMEGA (ALL in other words), not just one of them. The others who used OMEGA or the "final" concept are the fear mongers, the "apocalyptics" such as the doomsday prophets with their the "End of Times is coming soon" religions. And then there are the Totalitarian political philosophies of "The final Solution", such as the Nazis.

A school for Children is not an OMEGA as "the END"!! Life does not stop after the Grade ONE! Get SRCM to explain that one!! What SRCM is making is little "meditators" for SRCM, the Mission. It is part of a 10 year plan (as in business). It is not "spirituality" but the business of religion with all it's flawed theology, that leads to a flawed philosophy and psychology and a flawed structures that create "self involved" and un-loving, un-caring, un-compassionate", "living dead"s, navel gazers who preach and proselytize what they do not practice and are into their own "senses" as though it was self (me) realization, but is really ego gratification. It certainly is not 'caring for the Poor or the needy or anyone else beside the "gang" or the "cult".

Just my humble experience since my wife of 35 years became a "meditator". Now she is "not like us" as she and many other "victims" seem to claim. It must be part of the programming. Love is just for the Mission, the Master, the Method. Love for the "serfs" or the "sheep" is not for their family, friends, your neighbour, country, culture, the planet, the bees, etc...Love is just for the family, friends, neighbour, culture, country of the Master and the Mission. Ie. India and the Master's family and culture.


The Mission with it's self serving preceptors and abhyasis, destroy love as Chari has admitted finally or OMEGA-lomaniacally. ;-))


Don

Christian said...

Hi Andrew,

Though Michael has already done it, I will insist a little more so that it is very clear for you as well as for the readers of the blogs that there must be no confusion.

The criticism we have developped is not against the Sahaj Marg TM, but against the SRCM TM.

Furthermore, the more I analysed the situation, the clearer it was that there is only 1 guy responsible of the mess: Chari TM.

You can come here to testify about wonderful spiritual experiences, no one doubt it and we had ours too.

Please do not make the confusion, and do not shift the focus of the discussion - this is a strategy to avoid criticism, what I would call a denial.

There are facts we criticise, and surely, there are other facts as those you report. Join us if you want to go on in the reflection about what the first category really mean and imply.

4d-Don said...

Hi again Andrew...

I forgot one thing....A response to this one:

"Surely rather than wasting our time condemning religious organisations we would be better off putting our own house in order first."


That is sort of like saying, wait to do anything until you are perfect like "Chari" or us? That is what you call perfection and "humility" no doubt. As soon as you are perfect, you will help the poor, like Chari, right?

Well, do you read Chari's speeches where he calls the Christians "liars" in the confessional and that priests can't forgive sins and that Christ was "not wise" in being crucified, and that the Hindu and Hinduism was "corrupt".

We, the "unclean" then call him on his "clean up your own house" you who destroy "love, compassion, charity and faith" according to Chari's own words. And then, you "acolytes" come on as if we are the ones being "unkind". He, and you, by proxy, his clones, are arrogant and attack other religions and use "fear tactics" and all the "low gimmicks" of religions and cults and you don't want us to say anything as he (and you) "steal" the sheep of other religions to "grow the business". I don't care who gets the sheep as the sheep are free, but the tactic does not reflect a high standard of "honour", specially when the SRCM uses Catholic Church facilities to "proselytize" under the "dishonest" guise that Sahaj Marg is just "meditation" and anyone can join and remain in their own "religion". We know that is a lie as Chari's statements show. If you read the Wikipedia Sahaj Marg page, you will see the sections from a speech in Denmark.

If he did good in the families of the serfs, we would say that at least, it's for the better of mankind but the families are "destroyed" as the love in those families is destroyed.

So please do not preach to us to "clean up our own back yard". That is exactly what we are asking Chari and the SRCM to do. To attempt to turn it on us is "really dense" if you will excuse me. You might not
be conscious of what you are doing and saying as Chari claims (contexst available if needed) , but Sahaj Marg makes you 'serfs' ignorant and not conscious of what you are saying, much like Chari and others from the Management Team who attempt to preach at the "critics" and the adherents alike. Anything to grow the Mission.

I read of some of the litterature of some of this Management Team. Themes such as: "You too can sell" and "You too can be rich" and wonder what part of their "spiritual back yard" they cleaned before preaching to the poor abhyasis like us? And now, these materialists are getting involved with the "children". Such high standards in the all new SRCM....

There is no mention of "help the poor" there either but "be ready to make war on your relatives", by destiny, as in Hinduism. Is that what Sahaj Marg is? Is that the OMEGA or "final Solution" of the SRCM's school, Lalaji Memorial OMEGA School? Lalaji must be turning in his grave. Clean up that yard before preaching to us, or at us.

Thank you for your understanding of our "spirit", the poor (and spiritual) who already share the little we have with the poor...and do not take kindly to being preached at by arrogant materialists who call each other "not generous" as Chari said of Babuji, as if it was a quality. You can make yourself look good at your own expense, by doing some good for those that need it, not by preaching at us. That goes for Chari also and the whole SRCM "gang".

Addendum: In Europe, SRCM is now dividing the groups by age, inviting the youth and not allowing anyone over 45 yrs old, except the "organizers" of course. Age descrimination in Spirituality? What next on this "immoral path" on the way to "morality"? Gee is this "cultish" or what?

Don...

4d-Don said...

Hi Michael..

If you allow me, I noticed that your site is being hit by readers who check the comments at the beginning and at the end and most miss the "middle ones"...I am re-posting this commentary at the end so that all might read it as I feel it is important....

You decide...

Don..

This is a comment left by "anonymous" (after reading you will understand why) after the "Introduction" post on this blog.



Michael, Christian

I appreciate your efforts and time you have put to share your experiences.
At age 17 (1987) i had strong desire to understand the meaning and purpose of life. Studied Vivekananda, and started meditating on my own. I came across 'Reality at Dawn'. I was impressed and decided to meet Babuji.(I am an indian living in India). I met a local preceptor Mr.M. After couple of meetings he said "I know what you are looking for, I request you to join our mission. Give me six months of time. Do what i say for six month. At the end we will sit on same platform. If you feel i have wasted your time, your free to give me any abuses you like".
I was touched by the humility and openness. I told him, i would not question for one year.

Later during sittting and talks i realized, Babuji had passed in 1983. I went to Shahjanpur for 'Lalaji's Birthday celebration', the same year. I was already feeling the difference in my condition/experience the grace at Babuji's Samadhi and his house. As i got involved i learnt that there is some issue going on with Babuji's Sucessor. Mr.M told me that Babuji left none. We have a working president Dr.S.P.Srivastava.
I used to meet my preceptor almost three times a week. During talk, i understood that Chari is claiming the sucessorship and came to know about all the legal issues in India too. He mentioned to me that, while Babuji's body was still burning at Shahjanpur, Chari had the paper circulated that he is nominated as the president of mission. Chari was general secretary of the mission till 1980(?), he was removed from all postions after that. Chari was the only person appointed by Babuji to make new preceptors. My preceptor was made a preceptor by Chari!.
But he refused to accept chari as the representative. The personality he described to me about chari and what i read from your blogs are identical!

Infact, Chari send out a letter to my preceptor, that his preceptorship is cancelled, and his powers are revoked. He showed that letter to me when i went for a sitting to his home. Asked me to sit for a sitting and tell him how true it is. I felt no difference in the sitting, it was still the same grace i have been receiving.

Unfortunatly, my preceptor left us in 1993. Babuji that i know, SahajMarg i know, the grace i feel is all due to his efforts. In my very close association with him for six plus years, I have never, not even once, seen him lose his cool or a change in the tone or pitch of his voice. I was like his son, so there nothing hidden from me or as a matter of fact anyone. There was no 'inner circle'.

I had developed good relation with preceptors of neighboring cities too by that time. And i saw very similar personalities. None of them accepted Chari as the successor though.

Since they wanted to run the Mission, they met with the president S.P.Srivastava and decided on ways to make new preceptor and made new one for my city. I took regular sitting from him and felt similar grace too.

I have also heard from my preceptor that Andre Porey was a strong contender for the successorship. Babuji had more liking for him, but Lalaji disapproved him, since Lalaji felt that Andrey Pore or people around him are not introvert and would utilize the power for material purpose. I recollect this as i read your post on people dressed in black showing up for meditation.

As far as i know, my preceptor told me that till the end Babuji was always saying that i did not find one to nominate.


The center was working fine, but we got a letter now from Umeshchandra saxena that he is the sucessor representative. We all got copies of the letter that Babuji Maharaj wrote to him on mission letter head with Babuji's Signature.

I have seen the letter that Umeshchandra produced and the one that chari has produced. I still have copies of both. I rejected the copy chari produced simply by reading its content. Babuji, as i have known him from my preceptor, does nothing without mentioning his guru Lalaji Maharaj. A successor nomination letter without the name of Lalaji Maharaj is 'impossible'.

The letter that umeshchandra produced seemed more in line with Babuji's style. "By the grace of God and Lalaji Maharaj..."

I must mention here, my preceptor told me that when Babuji used to travel west, he used to leave few blank signed papers on mission letterhead for administrative reasons. Since he worked in court, he was very perticular and always checked back on the papers when he came back. In one of his last trips, he saw three blank signed letters were missing. He registered a complain at local police station for records.

Since one of the senior preceptor (he was one of the few, who had soul connection with Babuji-initiation) in neighbouring city, accepted that letter, we all accepted it.
I took sitting from umeshchandra when he came to my city. The sitting reminded me of the condition i felt, at Babuji's Samadhi and Babuji's house. Tremendous grace. But i was very perplexed with the petty talk and other behaviour of Umeshchandra. I question this to the Senior preceptor-whom we were relying on.

He agreed with my observation, asked me to watch and not react. I kept did not question much.

Umeshchandra has accused Chari of 'poisioning' Babuji Maharaj in court papers! He said that something was done to Babuji in his trip to west. I recollect this when i read michael's post of Babuji falling down.




Umeshchandra, later asked me to come and stay at his house near Delhi. I went there for four days, and he made me a preceptor. He seemed sincere in trying to run the mission as Babuji intended. I saw all the menuscripts that Babuji wrote while he as getting dictations from Lalaji Maharaj, Lord Krishna, Swami Vivekanada, Lord Jesus Christ, Lord Buddha etc. (there is a autobiography published from it, not many people has that copy)

Later I came to US on work (1996). Having made preceptor and US secretary of the Mission, i tried to see if i can find some good abhyasis. I tried to contact old abhyasis's from a list i got from Umeshchandra. I even attended a sitting conducted by a local preceptor made by Chari. I did not divulge my identity- said i am an abhyasi from India. I noticed that there were no pictures of Babuji Maharaj or Lalaji Maharaj in the center. There was a picture of Chari. I did not find any grace in that sunday group sitting.(my sensitivity is very good to surrounding, i can catch good and bad vibrations, thoughts etc.)
After the sitting a book was being read written by Chari. I never went there again or talked with the preceptor.

I created a website 'sahajmarg.org'. Put some basics of Babuji's teaching and the issue of sucessor representative. I scanned the court papers, Chari had presented in the court as successor representative and the one Umeshchandra presented.

This started a legal battle here in US. They(Chari's zonal secretary) contacted the domain registrar and disputed the domain. The issue went to arbitration. I worked with Umeshchandra, and presented the response to the arbitration. The decision came in our favour that we can keep the domain name. I was delighted, and so were people in india, this was probably the first time, we had won something.
This did not last long, as Chari, approched the federal court, virginia to dispute the outcome. I too hired an attorney to fight the case. My financial power and other means were extremly limited. There is nobody here that can support me in this issue. It was a drag on me personally and finacially.

When, Chari(zonal seceratary) realized, i am fighting it out, they hired one of the biggest law firm in US to fight the case (100K + would be their fees)

In 1999, I went to india to attend Babuji's centenary celebration in Shahjahanpur. I saw obvious change in Umeshchandra at that time. He did not have any Job or financial backing. He had started depending on the Mission to support himself. I did not have any problem with it, since he was doing a full time job as the president. But i saw, that the attitude was to get more money in the mission, so that he and his family can use more- support a lifestyle.

I saw politicians invited at the celebrations on the stage. They are bad everywhere, but in india its - i don't have words here.

I saw i was being used for some publicity. There were fears for Umeshchandra's life due this dispute and he was carrying a revolver in his pocket at shahjahanpur ashram.

I was sad. I realized Umeshchandra is not the representative. I discussed with the senior preceptor on whose word we had accepted him as president. He used to manage all the accounts for the ashram. He acknowledged, grave money mismangement in the mission.

I came back to US, very sad. I still had to deal with the court case, since Chari's attorney refused to accept Shri RamChandra Mission, Shahjanpur, India as an identity and was personally dragging me in the case for violating his trademarks.

My attorney, advised me to backoff, He told me he does not have means to fight the biggest law firm in US, and even if we won, they can always challenge the decision and go to supreme court and drag this for a long time. I did not have the money, or power and now no faith in Umeshchandra.

I signed the papers that i have nothing to do with the SRCM, nor will my kids! have anything to do with it.

My heart cried...still does.

Anonymous said...

Don,

There is an important aspect of 'sahaj marg' which is not brought to light. Babuji and my preceptor used to say, 'spirituality' and 'worldly matters' are like two wheels of a cart. Both need to me taken care of. One cannot expect to become 'enlightened' by just doing one. Majority of current state of affair is due to giving importance to only one, either on the material side or on the spirtual side.

Michael said...

Anonymous,

This is EXACTLTY the point we have been trying to make all this time. The SRCM has created an organization that puts families in jepoardy, fosters an inner circle that fights for power and control of the organization. Disciples now seem convinced that they should ignore all this and simply do their duty to the mission to gain access to the brighter world.

I again will say, the SRCM has completely lost its way from the very principles of Sahaj Marg that you have stated. It is now ALL about getting to the Brighter World even if it means destroying your family and running roughshod over your fellow human beings.

Michael

4d-Don said...

Hi anomymous...


Hi Anonymous...

It would help if you signed your commentaries by any name you like so we can distinguish between the many "anonymouses"...

Thanks..

You are right, and I applaud you! We are now ONE and in the ONE-ness of the light of "logic", we can work to addressing the "wrongs" that is being perpetrated in the name of "religion" and/or "spirituality" in the Sahaj Marg or more accurately the new SRCMtm.

Is there not a "Machievelli" in India that we can quote that says: The end justifies the means is not acceptable in spiritual logic. It is "opportunism". With the move to the Right in our societies, opportunism is seen as a quality as in "jump at every opportunity", but in logic, it means that one forgets or sacrifices "morality", ethics, and certainly compassion and charity, love and by the same token, higher spiritual logic.

It is another example of the "tapas" being taken out of the "Raja Yoga" of the MIND which, without "charity, love, compassion", this spirit (The charioteer) loses control of the Horses (the senses and hence the MIND and certainly Logic) and deteriorates into the corruption of "materialism".

In early Christianity, John used the Greek word "logos" to signify in philosophy: Logic as defined by sound using Words. It is in it's philosophy that SRCMtm and more specifically, Chari, a businessman and not a "philosopher or a thinker" is losing it. He has eliminated all the spiritual and the philosophers from Sahaj Marg in favour of the engineers, techies, materialists etc...so there it stands. SRCMtm is as corrupt as the religions he puts down. There are apparently no mirrors in Sahaj Marg, SRCMtm or in India.

If Chari was a little more "loving", and would show as much compassion as he does with his arrogance and ignorance (as in ignorance of the ONE God and also ignoring people and issues), we would all still be part of the "flock" and the "brighter world" would be HERE! not some mythical future that we can reach by "stomping on our family and friends" so as to "grow the Mission" AS the song "Eve of Destruction" by Barry McGuire (1960's) says: Eat you next door neighbour but don't forget to say "grace"!

I will pray for you! You seem like a good person...and not very "obedient"!

Don

Christian said...

try to decompose more and more the situations into their constituting parts and try to see how these parts interact.

there is much to learn from the SRCM system as a psychological system than I ever thought.

how individual psychological systems extend beyond individuals, but also how a supra-individual psychological system finds/uses/creates echoes into individuals.

but from all this, I'd like to ask what is part of the psychological level in this system, what is really relating to spirituality?

always this ignorance about the way our mind works, driving to a confusion between the imaginary and spirituality.

by being focussed on the trivial opposition matter/spirituality - a useful division created by masters - we are made unable to see things from another point of view.

the method I have chosen is:
(1) gather information
(2) decompose
(3) observe, think, and meditate on the topics
(4) try to make sense
(5) try never to think the conclusion you have arrived to is the only possible one (most difficult point)
(6) continue confronting your model to new facts

this 6th point is what science does where religious people stop at 5.

we are all naturally religious.

Andrew said...

It was my intention not to bother replying to the issues raised previously. It seems preferable to me to laugh off criticism rather than indulge in intellectual warfare.
Howver as I sat through my usual 8 hour marning sit, an inner energy rose into the field of the mind and urged that I not leave this matter unfinished.
Firstlt Don, you queried how the compassion and oneness expresses itself. Is it merely intellectual.
During these periods of hightened consciousness, the tool of the mind drops off, the personality that WAS me ceases to be and another Being, a much greater Being looms into awareness. This is not a thought but a direct reality, as one who is sad is aware of the sadness, as one who is high on some substance is aware of the intoxication. Love during these moments IS - moreover the 'I' is love - love incarnate, nothing but pure love. Not the selfish love of attachment and lust, but a purer state of being.
"Can you truly care and love your neighbour and let him/her die of starvation?" During these periods the drama of life loses its reality. The one Greater Being is seen in all of this gross manifestation. To use to well known story of Sri Ramana Maharshi the drama of life is seen as the pictures on the big screen. As fire seems to burn ships, as women seem to be raped and beaten, as ones neighbour seems to die of starvation, the screen of the Self, the sole reality beings unburnt, unaffected by rape, abuse and death. All are seen as the One, which cannot be slain as the body is slain. The drama of life and the personalities in it are seen as what they are - illusion. What others exist to serve when one is aware of this? If in the drama someone seems to die, then surely it is His Will. It is natural. Thy will be done. Is the screen affected by an actor dying in a film? During these periods one is aware that knowing this state is the only Heaven, the only escape from the bondage of the drama of life. A life of doing good seems noble, but it will not break the spell! One is only performing noble actions in a long and complicated movie. I don't know if Chari is realised. Indeed I have never been a great Chari fan. His writings do not appeal and hence I rarely read them. The only contact I have with them now is after satsangh. Nevertheless the overwhelming peace is getting stronger by the day, and more constant. I come away from individual sittings completely intoxicated and return home to sit again only to lose world consciousness and enter the eternal. What more can I say? It is said the mark of a teacher comes from the peace of mind one feels in his presence. My preceptor, an aged Indian who knew Babuji, insists that it is coming from Chari (or rather the Self within the imperfect body mind dream vehicle which is Chari) and has nothing to do with the himself. What then can I say? Is the intellect with its likes and dislikes to be trusted at all?
I have no love of organisations as it seems corruption always sets in. But God extinguishes me like a snuffed candle and exposes himself during time with my preceptor and my experience is able to overcome the prejudices of my rational mind.
I have no love for the mission, nor the master, nor the method, my love is for Him and Him alone, but the radical changes I am seeing leave me without a doubt that there is something more to this system than meets the eye.
I have no intention to shift the focus of this discussion. I accept that in the drama called life it seems there are grave issues within SRCM. My intention is simply to show that behind the mess, something truly spiritual does exist. If one is able to ignore the rubbish, one can pick out gems worth more than any physical gem. Granted that Chari speaks a load of rubbish, granted that no ego can ever be perfect. But that Perfection exists within us all and we can indeed know it is a fact as I can testify.
Now surfers you can all go back searching for that ultimate porn!
Have a good life

Anonymous said...

Andrew,

Wonderful! I am sure you feel the inner state. The analogy you give for Shri Raman Maharshi is very accurate. I am with you there.

Power is one thing. Did you know in the indian history, there was somebody called Ravana. Tremendous power, but the flow of actions (vritti-tendencies) indicated material presence. Not freedom from matter.

There are many in this world who has varying degree of power. There layers are not dense and they do emit grace.

Also a word of caution, when you take sittings from a person, you get benefit from his spirtual state as well as material state.

Only if the person is free from tinge of matter can he give out 'pure grace'. This is from experience.

One can increase the power, progress higher but if the system is not free from matter, the risk is very high. The state is so much charged - fertile, that any impression-desire in its subtlest form would get so much strength, it would create a big mess.
There are many who have progressed well in the field and have fallen.
I have sympathy for them.

Scriptures call it 'walking on razor's edge'.

A

4d-Don said...

Hi Andrew…

Thanks for taking the time out of your ‘intoxication” to reply to your brother of the “unclean masses” on planet earth.

In the use of the Mind and the intellect, the porper word for attempts at “concensus” or “unity” or togetherness is called “debate”, not “warfare”. It is a much more civilized term than the “emotional” and immoral term “warfare”.

I am happy for you that you are getting something out our your meditation. To call it “intoxication” confirms Mao Tse Tung’s description of Religion as “the opiates of the Masses”. I always though that spirituality was for adding more “love and compassion and empathy and energy” to the planet not for “mere intoxication”

Just recently a friend mentionned that her son was addicted to crack and heroine and that he was saying things like: “It’s so REAL”, and “I feel so “at ONE” with everything”. He even said: “You should try it and see. You’ll be excited just like me!” Of course, she, being on the outside and seeing her son “waste” his life away, wanted someone to intervene. Does that sound familiar?

Intoxication and addiction does not prove the spiritual value of an activity.

I am glad that you see the corruption in the SRCM and that you are not trapped there in their philosophy. I trust that you don’t think or believe that:

1. God is Male
2. Homosexuality is “un-natural”
3. Women can’t be masters because they are not “destructive” enough. (men are??)”
4. Catholics lie in the confessional” and “Christ was not wise in being crucified”
5. Sahaj Marg has no philosophy

And many more quesionnable points…

So I will not bother you with those points…

However that you think that to have someone sit in front of you and send “energy” to your heart in a “heart to heart” transmission and that you think that "that" is “spiritual” is to be questionned. If you have a “greedy” person transmit to you would you not become “greedy”. If an “arrogant” person transmitted to you, would you not become “arrogant”. If spiritual qualities are trasmitted in a “two on one heart” technique (and I believe it works), are not all the other “grossness” in people’s hearts not also sent into the “receptor” thereby addicting him/her to a new condition which they think is “spiritual”. The qualities of “goodness”, sympathy, empathy, etc… do not seem to come out, so one wonders if they are “put in” by the transmitter. Is the receptor just receiving a jolt of “people energy or an electromagnetic frequency (psycho-magnetism)

My wife, who is an abhyasi (as was I) has not become more tolerant but less, not more sympathetic but less, not more generous but less.
Why meditate then? To bring the target societe to "isolation" and “division” and to see one anoter as an “illusion” or a “movie”? Where is the “love of neighbour”, the compassion for the family, the friends, the planet etc….Is it all “ILLUSION” except that Chari and the Preceptors are REAL.? You don’t follow you own Intellect, but you slavishly follow the preceptor’s intellect and the Master's, the Mission's, the Method’s Intellect. Who creates the Mission and the Method? Is it not the Master and the Management Team with their intellect? Do they not use their “intellect” to keep you as a “serf”?

You end your comments with a “porn” statement as if we who are not like you are "surfing" to satisfy “the senses”. Such "arrogance!! You are a clone of your Master!
I think that a mirror would help you see that “navel gazing” and “spiritual masturbation” is still serving the senses and the SELF as your term of self “intoxication” seems to show.
If you are not “helping” your neighbour and your society, then you are only serving “yourself”. And that is called “self indulgence”. Not through the genitals but though the mind, the intellect (or lack of), the stomach, and though the lack of caring for your “surrounding” social and physical environment. Oh yes! Those meditators don’t mind ‘banquets” and orgies of eating while the starving go without. But no sex please (publicly), we’re “spiritual”!!

It reminds me of Christ who walked with the thieves and the prostitures, and the “lowly” in life. In my life, I have found that the Lowly such as the “prostitues” are more honest in what they do than the “religious” and the “spiritual” who proselytize to “grow the Mission” and "intoxicate" themselves in their spiritual "progess" and phycical power of animal magnetism or "charisma", claiming that it is Divine or even worse that they are "God Incarnate" as "flesh and blood embodiement of the Divine" (to use Chari's words). No humility there.

If it’s just meditation, why the constant need for money and “ranches in Texas” (for the rich) and “castles” in Europe? Where is the “honesty”??

Intoxication is not a proof of Divine-ness! It is the sign of a “drug” being used!! Maybe one’s own hormones!!

I will pray for you too…May you be blessed … and grow in sympathy, compassion and love for your family, friends and culture and country.

Don…

Anonymous said...

I think that someone needs to also address the topic of sexuality within the SRCM fold and get some stories regarding this. I posted on Wikipedia - my own life has been virtually ruined because of certain decisions of Charis' and he doesn't have the balls to either acknowledge it or do something about it. First I was shocked, now all I can say is "Whatever".

SRCM's stand on gay and lesbian issues is shockingly outdated and even criminal, to be sure.

Anonymous said...

A senior preceptor close to Master once told me that he (Master) thought that he was Prophet Muhammad in his past life. Comments like this create confusion in the minds of abhyasi.

4d-Don said...

Hi Anonymous...

I agree with you and have taken a stand on the issue and exposed it on Wikipedia.

There are over 450 species of animals that practice "homosexuality" for many reasons, so to say the it is not "natural" and not DIVINE is just wrong.

One can say that it is "abnormal" as not "the norm" and that can be debated with "numbers". But for a "representative" of the Divine to claim to be in contact with other "elevated" souls or spirits and call homosexualtiy "un-natural" reminds us of the amount of work we have to debate the issues in the "public" arena.

We have the technology, we can do it... as Jean-Luc Picard of Star Trek would say: "Make it so".. or as Christ would say: "Amen" or (so be it)

May you be blessed by the ONE!!! who is not "gender-based" and neutral on "sexual" issues...LOL

Don

4d-Don said...

Hi Anonymous # 2

Please chose a name and address you message to someone and sign so we can address a reply to you directly rather than to "anonymoust # ...x) lol ...

Chari claiming to be a "re-incarnation" of Mohammed will please the Muslims and the Sufis no end. After all it is under Chari (as well as under Babuji) that the removing of the Sufi (Naqshbandiyya) lineage from Sahaj Marg was performed even though Lalaji, the first Hindu of that Lineage, thanks to the "generosity" of his Master, a Muslim, is kept as a Master of Sahaj Marg. Hujur Maharaj has been taken out event though the "heart to heart" transmission was practiced by the sufis and was not "lost" to them, to be "re-diccovered" by Lalaji as is falsely written in the official "Sahaj Marg" version of history on their SMRTI web site.

Can one make a silk purse from a "sow's ear"??

Thanks for the Input...and the strange claim...

Don

PS...we are on the "oldest" comments board on this blog...all the other posters are posting to the "latest" comments board which is the first one of the blog....We can take this there if you want others to read it...

don

Christian said...

Hi Anonymous,

if Chari was Muhamad, we should ask him to correct his past craps instead of causing more for the future.

if it was the case, this soul is one of the worst generated by Nature.

actually, the nazis compared to the muslim fascists were nothing but amateurs, and we can just wonder what will be the next wave of fanatics that the SRCM will generate in few centuries.

Muhamad, with Islam, is the root of the third world war, which has already began, and which will cause billions of deads.

Chari the responsible?

now we can understand why Chari is creating fanatism.

since his last incarnation, however, he has made big progresses: he doesn't ask anymore his followers to kill the infidels.

but he hasn't lost this bad habit to convert everybody and to proselytize.

bullshit.

my guess is that Chari has some Arab blood.

that's why he thinks there is some link with Muhamad, because he finds some information related to Muhamad through his lineage.

that's what reading past lives is: reading through blood's memory.

this would also explain his reaction when I wrote to him about Arabs.

Christian said...

concerning homosexuality, I have never reacted to the huge amount of posts from Don on this topics, because it is something I do not really understand.

my guess is that it exists mainly or only in the social animal species.
if so, it is the sign that it plays a social role, which could be to protect lineages from destruction.

in humans, it looks like a way to solve or avoid solving the oedipe by avoiding the rivalry with the parent of the same sex.

however, by avoiding this rivalry inside the familly, the individual never succeeds escaping it, because it is always there in the sexual relation.

Chari is a moral guy.
sometimes, the Muhamad who sleeps in him awakes and makes him say very bad words.

hope that next time, he will be reborn into an homosexual in a muslim country.
after that utlimate hell, the cycle of rebirth will probably take a break.

4d-Don said...

Hi Christian and anonymous, or Kay….

That is an interesting analogy you bring up: “castrating their male God into something neutral”… I hope you are wrong on the “…feminist (they) prefer (ing) entire males though hating them (at) the same time”, but that is a tangent and is beside the point.

If the ONE, what some call God, is a “spirit” which even the Jewish Bible scholars seem to claim in their translation of the word for their Creator of ALL, Yahweh (It that has no name, no form, etc..,, and hence any abherations in Christianity and Islam are secondary), that the ONE or the GOD, being a Spirit or a “rarified form of energy” does not have “form” (such as gonads, testicles, stamens etc), so IT cannot be “castrated” by little old “frenchmen” (or women) or “englishmen” or humans in gereral. If the ONE (God or Yahweh) in ITS diverse attributes of the “ALL “ (Creation), has testicles, then it also has ovaries, vaginas and is also homosexual, a-sexual, unic, celibate etc…

The ONE (what some call God) should UNITE ALL. The ALL (Creation or Nature) should include ALL, including the so-called “sinners”, the perverts, the suicide bombers, the state-sponsored terrorists, etc…Just like the sun shines on everyone regardless of their being “good” or “evil”, and the wind does not only blow on the “bad” or the “evil”, then the ONE (CREATIVE), being “spirit”, and/or the ALL being everything created, should do the same. To claim that the ONE prefers or choses one person, race or tribe above another is just “favouritism”, “racism” or “tribalism” and is not “just” or “Divine”.

God as a person (usually Male), is what most religions have created and sold since the begining of religion. Our tribal adherence to this, and other myths, can be attributed to our primordial fear of death. The “shahmans” and the “priests”, the so-called experts in “the afterlife”, (also the story tellers, the philosophers, and the entertainers) created the many myths, heavens, and in some societies, “re-incarnation” so as to entice and/or frighten the tribe members into creating a somewhat “stable” society. The fear of death, hell fire, eternal damnation or being reborn as a “lower” life-form has kept our species relatively controlled and stable except for a few (relatively) “deviants” and “psychpaths”. Our legal and societal systems have been able to deal with them more or less, and at different times, such as times of resource shortages or natural or artificial stress (sometimes created by the priests and the “storytellers), our species descended into atrocities. Some were societally condoned and some were as a result of assigning and/or transfering the power of the individual to the “deviant” and “megalomaniacal” members of society who in return promised the “defense” of the tribe and the favour or Blessing of the “GOD”.

As a global society, we can no longer afford that type of tribal god and their religions and cults, and we must at least evolve to the level of our science and technology, specially astronomy, cosmology and physics, and create, and/or rationalize a “galactic” or “universal” uniting paradigm, be it a GOD (a word usurped from the germanic tribe called the Goth, who with their cousins, the Visigoths (children of Goth or God) and the Vandals (who gave us “vandalism”) invaded and sacked Rome in the 4th century of the common era (CE)) or a ONE …we do not need or want an “emotional”, personal, Deity. I favour a more “neutral” concept so as to unite all the different “religions”, peoples (and societies of peoples) of the planet into ONE….We ALL have to be on the same side, and inside the same ALL (Created UNIVERSE)!!

No, I don’t want the gender-based societies to castrate their gods if they are male, any more than the Greeks and the Norse castrated Jupiter, Odin and the many gods of their pantheons as they accepted the more “unifying” Christian (Jewish), “GOD the FATHER” because, I believe, of the message of LOVE of Jesus, the Christ. But the “God the Father” concept reduced some of the “pettiness” inherent in the pantheonic system, it took some of the “sex” out of the DIVINE for a more (ini-sex or Male gender) and UNITING conception of the GOD!!! Our personal “Gods” can become “historical” as the Greek and Norse gods have become, and we can adhere to more “logical” and “neutral” concepts to UNITE our species, such as the concept of the ONE!!!

Just as the Proton does not have sex with the Electron to create electricity or magnetism and heat does not need to have sex but uses friction and gravity to “procreate”, etc… Sex is of the bioplogical Material and should be celebrated in the material not in the “spirit”. We can still have sex as a “physical” event, but we don’t have to “attach it to a personal God” as a virtue or a “sin”, any more than we attach it to the UNIVERSE as anything but a way of continuing the species. ….Our sex drives might have sun, moon and planetary inflences!!! The ONE (the CREATIVE) does not care if the dog humps the leg of the stranger or the leg of the chair. We, the spiritual entities and claiming to follow a “Natural Path”, should not care and should not condemn or praise what two consenting adults do for their sexual “pleasure”….Love is a different thing. As Pierre Trudeau once stated: “The State has no place in the bedrooms of the Nation”. I would add: “Religion has no place in the bedrooms (or any other room except the library) of the Nation”. Love is too complex and multi-faceted to discuss here. Love is not sex. Procreation does not need love. Procreation even happens in a “violent” way with “rape”, and in an asexual way with in-vitro fertilization. So no LOVE is necessary in the sex or procreation act.

If Sahaj Marg, as the “spirituality” that it claims to be, can’t unite all “individuals” into the larger community, and marginalizes some, such as the “homosexuals”, calling them “un-natural”, how can it unite races and Nations (United Nations)? If Sahaj Marg disempowers some (women), even if they accept it as women often do in most male-dominated religions, then it (Sahaj Marg) is not “natural” as the sun, the wind etc…which shines and blows on everyone equally, even women and “homosexuals”. . Will they (Sahaj Marg) call some religions “corrupt” (as Chari now does) and some not (such as Sahaj Marg)?… and some countries “materialists” and some not? (East and west). Is it not just like a religion to divide, point at, and marginalixe so as to conquer and grow the business? And Sahaj Marg under Chari does it in the name of “spirituality” also, as he bad-mouths “religions”, creating an even deeper division. Religion divides, spirituality UNITES, according to Babuji. So I want the CREATOR or the ONE, a spirit, “out of doors” (outside) and out of the hands of manipulators and dividers, which we ALL can be at times. Let us leave our “HIGHEST”, or our “ON HIGH”, our I AM THAT I AM etc.. be NEUTRAL and PURE and not “PERVERTED” by the historical or modern-day storytellers, even ourselves….

I would invite any Gay, Lesbians, unics, celibates, etc… to give me their opinion about the concept of the Divine as ONE… Is it a concept of the Divine that “includes” them also…and ALL…

PS…Canadian parliamentarians have again voted in favour of maintaining our ‘same-sex marriage” bill intact. The ONE does not care! I think it’s great, and I’m not gay!!! But if all the women were fundamentalists, literalists or “religious” I would re-think my “preference”. (lol…just a joke)…I would serioulsy try and make one of them listen to “common sense”.…lol

We, as spiritual and pacifists, should be grateful to the gay and lesbian population, as they are helping to solve our one major environmental problem….OVER POPULATION!!! (listen China and INDIA…Chari)

Thank you…

Don…

Christian said...

Hi Don,

Don't miss my point.
You seem to materialize god into a representation of something material, whether a being or genital organs.

By castrating, I meant doing it through language, doing a conceptual castration, from male to neutral.

I am not a feminist, god can keep his balls and continue to fuck humanity, which seems to like that.

Having gender matters mixing with godiches matters seems to cause too much excitation sometimes.

Maybe that as a male having a male god can finally be a problem, because it has much resonance with homosexuality?

To avoid having the sphere of homosexuality reach the borders of consciousness, but to keep in the same time the male ideological supremacy in religion, a good and natural solution is a disembodied spirituality: no penis, no balls, but still an all-powerfull male, the Supreme Fantasy.

Finally, maybe that the very foundation of the 3 monotheist religions, and I remind that they have strong psychological links between them because they all come from the same people, has something close to do with homosexuality.

Incredible: monotheist religions would emerge from an homosexual complex!

This would explain the paranoia of Muslims, the fanatism of all, the latent violence, either directed against the others or against oneself, the power of the dogma.

If it was the case, religious men in Christianity, Islam and Judaism, would have some homosexual complex directly caused by their religion, which could be the cause of the violence produced by religions.

What about the violence of women?
It would naturally result from the violence of men in reaction to this latent homosexuality, rooting the dogma they integrate when joining religion.

We could also find that way some explanation for your concern about the sex of god and the homosexuality of Chari.

All speculations you see.

Shashwat said...

Concept of SRCM is very very dangerous, it is based on lies lies and only lies and we all must come togather to counter it and expose the truth. attempt here is made to objectify GOD which practically is not possible, it is dangerous because it makes people succeptable to become mental salves and loose all mental power to take dicisions. Each and every point of SRCM can be reasoned out and proved to be a fake and illusionary, whole concept of SRCM today is focused to make more and more moeny, thereby making its deciples poorer and poorer, a master has to be unselfish, chari is shelfish beyond comparision. kindly join hands to expose SRCM and liberate people from this cult.

Michael said...

Shashwat,

Indeed we have presented truths here that point to a questionable direction that SRCM is being led in.

So many criticize me in particular for bringing up Christianity as they think I have fallen back into Religion and lost my spirituality. In fact, I bring it up here for two reasons. One, so much effort is made to slam Christianity in recent talks and publications within the SRCM, and: Two, to make a point that SRCM is itself evolving into a Religion - an organization consumed with itself. I make my Christian heritage known only to point out it's one and only positive attribute, and that is that a Christian is measured by how they treat their fellow humans. Other than that Christianity is riddled with a corrupt hierarchy, just as SRCM is. In SPITE of itself, there are many Christians who still strive to be compassionate, forgiving, and non-judgemental to their fellow humans. Sadly, SRCM does not promote these objectives and I, like you am concerned about its future as a Religion that lacks forgiveness, compassion and non-judgement.

...But, to your point, do we strive to crush SRCM and preach its corruption to the masses? I prefer to simply state the truth here and get on with my spiritual path. It is not our place to judge Chari, or others who promote this cult, but instead simply state the truth for others to acknowledge or reject.

Putting too much energy into crushing such an organization is indeed a waste of time and effort. I sense that you have been hurt by this organization. I too was hurt deeply, but please, my friend, do not let this pain consume you! The truth has been stated here and elsewhere. It lives on now and is difficult now to be concealed. Many have benefited from this effort. Attackers, who cannot handle it attack me and my brothers and sisters like Elodie, Christian, Alexis, and 4d-Don rather than address the truths we represent.

Sparring intellectually has no affect on these people. They can twist the truth by concealing it with fortune cookie like statements, which in fact are a futile and twisted logic that ones mind must create to survive in such a cult like environment. Do not blame them for this. It is a defense mechanism, like a reaction to stimuli.

You are amoung friends here who understand your pain. I hope at least that this gives you some comfort to put this pain behind you.

There is no need to fight this organization. The SRCM has its own path ahead that neither you nor I can alter. We can only present the truth, like a flower that pushes it's stem through rock and blossoms in the spring. I would suggest that we not take the same zelous path as they do to react against them.

I have seen your posts on Orkut, and the reactions to your responses as well. You are couragous to make a stand on a blog intended to promote their organization/religion. Sadly, I've seen the attacks against me when you quote my blog there. I suggest that it is time to move on to a more productive set of steps. Join us in exploring the rich and incredible spiritual creation that comes to us in each of our cultures.

We are all linked. Christianity, Sufism, Islam, Hinduism, Zoroastrianism, are all linked by a spiritual thread that has infulenced them all. Islam embraced it to create Sufism. Christianity is deeply influence by the Gnostics and its Jewish mystical heritage from the Kabballa and the Magi.

This spiritual thread and the people who are part of it influence religions through out the ages. Lalaji was a Hindu, and embraced a spiritual thread that came to him through a Muslim Sufi. His teacher acknowledges his Sufi heritage as something that is rooted in the Vedas. There is something deeply important about this that has been lost in SRCM as they bury Lalaji's true history and past in myths and half truths. I looked into my Christian heritage and found the same spiritual influences and threads that can be linked to the identical connection that Sufism, and Vedic spirituality comes from.

It is time for all of us to seek this thread in our lives and heritages and find a common link rather than create new religions that foster zelotry and intolerance- and it is certainly not worth the effort to spend any more time convincing those who cherish their blindness to see the truth before them.


Michael

Anonymous said...

Hi Michael, You are the archangel so you are protecting the masses/srcm is a manmade organization just like the catholic church. It is imperfect and I have heard no one say otherwise that I could understand. It seems very clear to me that our lives are individual existences and there is not a power on earth or heaven that can make it otherwise. Jesus died alone as we all do, that is reality and that is the goal of human life, to accept our own aloneness as oneness with ourselves which is all we need and all we are and it is enough.There is no one in our body except us and we are each our own Master and that awareness begins with Love for ourselves and the Master within. Chari is here as a living representative for those who need first to focus on the outside in order to reach their inside. Jesus did the same thing. There comes a point in our maturation as a human that we realize that we are own master. If that doesn't happen then we are lying to ourselves in order to avoid responsibility like an insolent teenager blaming their parents for their perceived shortcomings. Chari says that a true master is one creates masters not followers. Chari is 80 this year. The growth of srcm has been crazy and I too can see it just being another f@#%in religion. That is just sick! I am not sure Chari is making it happen though. People who want to be followers are making it happen. When are humans going to be willing to grow up? Thanks for the blog! MLZ

Michael said...

MLZ,

Thanks for your post and kind words. I am no Archangel though...

You and I agree about the direction that SRCM is heading. I get slammed by SRCM devotees for being involved with Christianity, when many who criticize are practicing Hindu's. I've watched Chari go to temple and perform Hindu rituals as a Brahmin. So why such a strong reaction to my involvement with the Catolic community?

Religions can serve an important function of creating a spiritual community. Catholicism is so diverse and decentralized, that one can find literally anything within it. But the Church itself is a corrupt human organization and the Vatican is literally filled with glorified altar boys who are so full of themselves, that they forget that it is the people who make the church, not them...

SRCM had the chance to embrace all religions and truly provide spiritual training for free to all of humanity, but has chosen a different path. Yes, indeed it is the people who chose that direction, but it was under the strong, unquestioned leadership of Chari. He appears to have an objective to create this Religious legacy for his Master.

As you point out, what is lost is the fact that ones spiritual path is pursued alone. Community can be helpful support at times during this lonely path, and serves a function, but if the Community becomes the path, spirituality lost and mob rule dominates. There is not enough diversity in SRCM as a religious community and it runs the risk of one dimensionalism as different people require a different community for support. There are no checks and ballances, the Master/President has absolute authority and control. Not a healthy scenario as a religion.

I believe that we are all part of a spiritual thread that extends back to the vedic and early biblical times. This mystical thread influences every religious and philosophical institution throughout history. The Magi influenced Judaism, Greek Philosophical thought, Christianity, and likely evolved to what became the Sufis, who, by another name, were embraced by Islam. Yet, there are those who consider themsevels Hindu Sufis, and Christian Sufis.

The fact is, that we dont need another religion or religious dogma, but to keep this spiritual thread strong regardless of the Community we choose to be a part of for support. SRCM appears to have completely lost itselve in its property purchases and worship of the Special Personality, which in their mind resides outside themselves.

s

Anonymous said...

i think spirituality is just abt having faith...i won't like to crirtisize anyone or any religion,as they are the different paths to the same goal.so, i believe no one has any right to say things abt any method or any path.

Anonymous said...

Hi Anonymnous..

You have just broken your own rule but telling others that "we don't have the right"...

We are taking the right. No one is giving it to us. Historically, the kings (the elite by "divine rights) (in England witht the barons and the Magna Carta..In France with the "revolution") did not give the peasants the right to do anything, they took it.

We now have the Technology, the INTERNET, and we are using it. You too!! I admit it, you don't...but you will soon everytime you open your mouth you are expressing your "desires" and that is good...Religions and cults like SRCM tell us our desires are bad but theirs are good...Yeah! Right!

Kill to obey Chari is good but Kill to obey Don is Bad...In your dreams...That "double standards" of flawed theology and flawed psychology is going to be pushed into the realms of History as an example of How NAIVE we were in the Past....

Safely tucked inside the ONE (what some call GOD) where we LIVE!!

You gotta laugh cause it's not funny...;-))

4d-don...

Anonymous said...

Michael, Don & other antis,

First of all let me say that I respect your opinions. If you think that you guys are saying the truth and the rest 150,000 abhyasis are not saying the truth or not feeling anything, guess who is right.

Sorry to say this, but you guys put yourself in a negative spot just by saying negative about others. I will give you an example. If a girl 'A' bitches about another girl 'B' since girl 'B' is more prettier and has a bigger fan following, then who is the bitch?

And talking about non-thinking abhyasis, there are abhyasis from MITs & Stanfords blah blah, where are you from?

Michael said...

Anonymous,

I appreciate your support for defending the truth. Whether one attends an ivy league school or not, does not protect one from becoming a non-questioning cult member. Suffice it to say that I am a well educated, thinking person who fell into the non-thinking obedience trap of SRCM and learned how difficult is is to de-program oneself from this dangerous mindset.

We are not bitching about anything here. We are warning people of danger. I disagree with your school girl analogy. My school girl analogy goes like this: Girl A discovers that Girl B has AIDS and is infecting the population in school. Girl A speaks out and warns the others.

Michael

Rohit said...

Hi Brother,

It is true that each one has his/her life's story told in a particular way, most probably the way they have lived it. The experiences, opinions and views posted here may be correct or are correct.

However, to the one continuous view of yours regarding SRCM that it is a power hungry organisation, is not altogether true. May be it is partly true, may be partly wrong.

Let me elaborate my view a little more. As stated in the Vedas and reinforced by Swami Vivekananda, “As the different streams having their sources in different places all mingle their water in the sea, so, O Lord, the different paths which men take through different tendencies, various though they appear, crooked or straight, all lead to Thee.”

Finally we have to arrive at that point or stage which we call God, God for name sake, as currently we
have no other disposition at hand to call HIM otherwise. SRCM is one of the various paths to reach him.

To find the useful there and use it to enhance your true self should be your goal, which in your
writings you have written that you achieved some what. You were made a Preceptor. Now that's an achievement. Let me tell you brother what you achieved is more than what I have. After 3 years in SRCM I am not disheartened. I am still an abhyasi. We have here a sincere band of workers/brothers who are
working for ourselves and in that process for others too. This is but natural. Never a man has worked for anyone else except himself/herself. However, the law of the Lord is such that by doing so in earnest faith he/she does enough good to others too.

Tell me brother by serving others have you gained something. As a matter of fact I have not. I would
say, after serving sincerely I have lost so many things. My health, my social gatherings, my intimacy with my friends. However, I am happy, in bliss, nearer to God than I was before. This is enough proof that we are ourselves responsible for what ever is happening.

Spirituality is not gaining something. I, in fact in my 3 years of association with SRCM, I have not received a gift or token of appreciation, except free food and the smile of my brothers and sisters.

Doing so thereby I am cleansing myself automatically, removing layers and layers of ignorance which I myself would have put sometime in the past.

To tell you frankly I am the kind of guy into whose mouth my Mother could not put a morsel of food that I did not like. I used to deny straight away what I did not like. Then when the all autoritiative Mother could not put a morsel of food into my mouth forcibly, could not do it physically, how is it that someone with His power unknown, unheard, unseen can change the course of my destiny or say to say your destiny with application of POWER. Yes, it is possible to change the couse but through LOVE, that too of the highest order. Our destinies do not change unless we ourselves choose to or inspired by a LOVE. Still in that case the LOVE inspires, exhorts us but can not change our course until we participate earnestly.

Similarly let alone the power aspect be set aside, why are you or we looking at the power aspect. It is there for some purpose hitherto unknown to us, ordinary human-beings. Let us forsake it. Let us take the Love aspect and grow it. Every other thing that is heavier than Love will eventually fall. Believe me brother will eventually fall off since our weak human frame is not capable of carrying such loads.

Naturally the kind of environment we create around ourselves, through our tendencies, will eventually lead us to our goal. The path may not be strewn with only roses, or thorns or an amalgamation of both but eventually will lead to HIM.

The wonderful doctrine preached in the Gita: “Whosoever comes to Me, through whatsoever form, I reach
him; all men are struggling through paths which in the end lead to me.”

So eventually our Goal is the ultimate. In doing that we are not trying to escape from something or gain somethimg. If according to Law of conservation of energy, "Energy can niether be created nor be destroyed but only can be transformed from one form to another." Then do you think we can escape from here to some where where there is all rosy pictures around. It is impossible until each one of the people associated with us reach there. And that is just a long lost memory of our own Father in Heaven. To suffer for HIM I tell you in what so ever form is really worth every cent we have earned and much more than that.

You are right when you say that there are some people who are trying their best to reach the Central Region, but without the appropriate credentials can any one stick to the position. Presidents have fallen, Great men have fallen. The Law of the universe is inevitable. Why should we bother about that?

Let us focus on what is to be focussed. Rest all is mere speculation that will take the energy away from us and be put in a direction which is least desirable from one's own viewpoint.

Let us pray to Lord and hope for the best and put an end to such speculations. May HIS will be done, whoever HE is!

Michael said...

Rohit,

I'm happy that you have found solace in your spiritual practice. As for your advice about power, you are preaching to the choir. I suggest you forward your comments to the leadership of SRCM they need to hear this wisdom coming from one such as yourself.

As for thinking that Preceptorship is an achievement, please, believe me, it is not. You are likely more knowledgeable and spiritually inclined than many preceptors. This is my primary criticism of all spiritual hierarchys on this earth be it SRCM(tm) or the Catholic Church. The Hierarchy perform particular duties. We respect and honor them for doing so, no doubt, but to believe that those not in the hierarchy are somehow less evolved, or have achieved less, is foolishness. In fact the hierarchy is nothing without the masses that follow them! Incidentally, this is true not only in spirituality but in business as well!

If you read my blog in detail, you will see that I have concluded that the real spiritual path is to realize that we are already spiritually evolved at the start, the journey is simply a formality that brings us right back to where we start, a state of Ignorance and Wonder.

Please, my dear friend, read and comprehend the book "Truth Eternal". Lalaji explains this in detail in this often ignored book. The journey is not about obtaining something. You are already close to God when you start. The Journey is what we embark on to appreciate who we are and what we are part of - and Yes, as you said so clearly, when all is done, Love is all that is left.

My experience in the hierarchy of SRCM pushed me so far away from Love. I saw vindictiveness, selfishness and a lust for spiritual power and control. I left SRCM to get away from this. I respect that fact that you have experience something quite different. I suggest that this has far more to do with YOU than with the SRCM.


Personally, since leaving the SRCM(tm), I have found Jesus' message of love, forgiveness and compassion the most powerful of all messages as it doesn't require years of practice and achievement to do. Anyone can be loving, forgiving and compassionate at any time, at any alleged level of spiritual advancement. Conversely, I contend that many who claim to be spiritually evolved to not practice these things, and I believe this is the real tragedy, as they have missed the point entirely!

Thanks for your warm wishes and kind words. I wish you all the best.


Michael

4d-Don said...

Hi Rohit...

With your permission, I feel compelled to add something to your message to Michael...

You say:

Finally we have to arrive at that point or stage which we call God, God for name sake, as currently we
have no other disposition at hand to call HIM otherwise. SRCM is one of the various paths to reach him.


I have been using the non-gender based, non-emotional, more logical and scientific "THE ONE" or the UNITY rather than the MALE God, a term that is too "broad" and too emotionally and culturally bound.
That ONE is then called IT...as to describe the nature of the UNITY in gender terms one would have to say SHE/HE/IT...(say it fast and often and you end up with ShEEET or SH.T)

The word "Lord" is also too culturally bound as the "LORD" is a lowly member of the aristocracy and in Britain, a member of the HOUSE OF LORDS... That word does not describe the "CREATOR" (or Creative Principle) of ALL (the creation).

To establish an arbitrary "goal" or a "search" for a place where the ONE (God) is more as opposed to where one is already is what religions use to keep the masses "supporting" the structure rather than one another. I just heard a "hindu priest?" say exactly the same as you and Michael just said more eloquently: "Service to "others" is the gauge of spirituality, not the meditating attaining of an "imaginary" goal."

You said:

Tell me brother by serving others have you gained something. As a matter of fact I have not. I would
say, after serving sincerely I have lost so many things. My health, my social gatherings, my intimacy with my friends. However, I am happy, in bliss, nearer to God than I was before. This is enough proof that we are ourselves responsible for what ever is happening.


I always wondered why in a relgion with a message of LOVE, such as Christianity, one goes with his friends and family and acquaintances and in Sahaj Marg, we go alone to reach the goal...Hence the friends and family and health get lost in "service" to whoM??? If we were serving "THEM" they would still be there.... NO! I recall this quote by Chari to the Preceptors in 2001:


"In the Indian scene, the Hindus and Hinduism is corrupt. God is personified as somebody who can be bribed with gifts, with so called prasads - offering temptation of Heaven which fact Babuji emphasized in His teachings, saying that religions depends on two instruments - temptation and fear."

"I am afraid that Sahaj Marg is suffering in this way because even when Christian people become abhyasis and preceptors, they somehow, somewhere along the way seem to lose this idea of love, charity, compassion, faith and become preceptors. So what Spirituality offers and can deliver, our priesthood, I would categorize you as, say temporarily as priesthood - they destroy."


This is the reality according to Chari...And it is a sad "admission' that we all felt and feel in SRCM since Chari...The transmission is "destroying" the love because of the "goal addicted" preceptors....Where is the love and the service if the focus of the "vessel" is on the "goal"? That is self-service and will lead to the same place as it did for other religions and that we now see with SRCMtm: Spiritual Capitalism. That is where favours (in the afterlife) are handed out by the "autocrat" to his "serfs" for services performed for the Mission or the Master in this life, hence replacing the FAMILY and Friends...

In Chari's New Year address in 2002



…So, since you asked me to speak, I’m speaking. I hope you are listening carefully, and you will ATTEMPT to follow the practise sincerely, with dedication, with absolute faithfulness to the practice, so that within a few short months, you will be able to feel in yourself that, “Yes, there is something in me which has changed. Yes, I see it myself, therefore I don’t need others to tell me anything about it. I am happy, so I don’t need other people to make me happy. I am content, I don’t need anything else to make me content. Where I sit in peace, thinking of my Master, I have the sole companion in my life whom I need. I don’t need anybody else to give me company. Then you will find happiness in Sahaj Marg , you will find fulfillment in Sahaj Marg . You will be ALONE but NEVER LONELY. YOU WILL HAVE NO RELATIVES, but you will have the one friend without whom we can do nothing and whom we don’t have, though we have many friends! He who has no Master, may have many friends but no real friend. He who has the Master may have only one friend but He is the real friend. And may that true friend be with you, guide you, help you, and take you to Himself.


Is this not telling...That does not reflect LOVE for the relatives and friends but is "self serving" by the Master, the MISSION, and the METHOD...The family is left out in the cold, a shell that is doomed to fall apart...

You mention your "brothers and sisters" but I think you mean the NEW acquantances you met in SRCM and not your true family and friends from your previous statements.

By the way, any addiction does the same thing: Alcoholism and Drug addiction will make friends of strangers and make strangers of friends. You can see it for all other addictions also...

You mention: "Why should be look to the Power aspect?"...Because, as "directed energy" power came into our lives and "upset" it...We now have to deal with it. On the other hand, the "emanation of energy" without the "directing" it, is what we admire in most saints...Christ, Gandhi, Sister Theresa etc...The do (as in service) and emanate or exhube energy. If Chari would not roam around the world spewing his flawed theology, philosophy (no philosophy), and advice to others, we would leave him alone. Power has to affect as is is energy "directed"...We as the recipient will absorb or repel....First as we are "good people" we assume the best and absorb and then when we are "fooled", we repel...We are in the repelling stage of the POWER that is Chari in the SRCM...I feel like telling to "GO HOME" and BE Spiritual rather than "Nationalistic", building "private" schools with our money while our kids are in "mobiles" PUBLIC SCHOOLS because of lack of Funding.
Our schools do not have 14 foot ceilings and Marble floors.

Just my rant for the day...

I wish you all the best and since you seem to be a "sincere" person, I think you understand where we are coming from and if you don't, you will... Unless SRCMtm goes through a 'TRANSFORMATION" and finds LOVE and COMPSASSION....

The danger in Sahaj Marg is the "Transmission"...from and by anyone who is motivated by power and a "goal"..

LIFE IS A JOURNEY...NOT A GOAL!

As in (ice) Hockey...HE shoots...He scores...The crowd goes wild...lol ...Now as a "star", I can become a "preceptor" and transmit to the serfs of Sahaj Marg... ;-))

4d-don...

Shashwat said...

Rohit,

I am surprised by the statement you have published about SV, you also need to understand what is said and not only read it, incase some-1 comes and say's kill all those who do not believe in your faith (as in case of Islam ref: Quran Chapter-4 Al-Nisa Sura 92) so accoeding to SV killing innocent people will lead to God ???

Hence if you are able to think you will understand that those path which cause harm to society and public in genral are taking you backwords where there is only evil, as is the case with SRCM, and by the very fact that we are humans we all must resist evil to the highest possible power that we have.

Blind faith produces only zombies like abhysis and sucide bomber's of islam, also pls read (as it is evident that you only read and never try to understand) this statement also made by none other then Swami Vivekananda

Complete works Vol-2 page 106

"The idea that you can make others grow and help their growth, that you can direct and guide them, always retaining for yourself the freedom of the teacher, is nonsense, a dangerous lie which has retarded the growth of millions and millions of human beings in this world. Let men have the light of liberty. That is the only condition of growth."


Regards
Shashwat

Rohit said...

Hi Brothers,

Yes Michael, I understand that there are some who lust for power, pride, name, fame etc.. however, what I am concerned about is that there is quite a negative view point of looking at things in a lot of the comments posted here.

Your views on Compassion, Love and Mercy are really nice. I have gone through some of the text. Verily that should come first before the personal quest, whenever/wherever the situation demands.

Like for example if somebody is in danger while walking on the road, unaware of a fast approaching vehicle then it is our duty to help that guy/gal by pulling him/her out. This may involve a risk of putting ourselves in danger however, that does not surface in the mind of the compassionate. It is a day to day dealing and certainly SRCM does not put breaks in participating, God forbid, if they occur. Things continue to grow and happen naturally while practising spirituality too. Of course, one's right thinking and right amount of efforts too matter a lot.

About 'Truth Eternal', I have not read it until now. Surely, since you brought out some interesting points I will go through it. Thanks for this suggestion. You are still a good Ex-Preceptor ;)

Well Michael do you continue to meditate or have left it altogether? I hope you are doing it. From your writings I can make out that you really have a profound knowledge on spiritual matters and that your language is gentlemanly and exhorting. Thoughts put in form of words are precise and to the point. Good Signs of a refined personality.

Well my brother 4-d don has also brought out some interesting points too. He has a knack of hitting at the right places. His writings have sarcasm, wit and humour involved. Somewhat like Bernard Shaw :)

But tell me Don have you not felt good while meditating? I hope you have certain good experiences to share with the readers.

My brother Shashwat has some extrimist view points which I never intended to strike upon. My exhortations and suggestions were and are more on the positive sides.

Well after meditaion, cleaning and prayer we should be feeling more refined and thus gaining the more human approach we should apply the new found characteristics to our everyday life. Like in office, dealing with our sub-ordinates, colleagues. I certainly have developed more awareness on this front which was lacking earlier. The diary writing too helps a great deal and shows us who we are!

So, there is not just blind faith but more of a practical spirituality here. There is more of tracking the development process and moving towards the Goal of going near to the Divine, our Beloved.

This shows at the Physical plane (feeling light and relaxed), Mental plane (Thoughts are getting refined, Sobriety is prevalent) and more Subtle planes from where Compassion, Love, Mercy arise. It is for the sake of the Self that all these development take place. And really speaking each day with its tidings-chidings, love and compassion... is opening up a new world altogether.

Even now while writing to you all my dear brothers, this activity is really giving me an altogether different sort of experience and of course there is spiritual and moral refinement going on.

A new outlook is developing and the ability to tactfully, precisely and simply putting my thoughts across is growing..

Thanks for this opportunity!

Michael said...

Rohit,

To your last point... This is exactly our goal as dissidents of SRCM. Sharing ideas and finding common ground without judgement of each other as human beings, is liberating and spiritually fulfilling. The SRCM hierarcy is so intollerant of dissenting thought, that we, as a disenting group are judged as being "unworthy" of having a valid opinion. I contend that SRCM would benefit greatly if they actually bother to listen to the ideas of their dissenters, rather than writing them off as " being at various levels of our own development". They have gone far down the path of faith based religion, establishing a hierarchy, and insisting on faith in something other than one's own personal experience. This is ok, if they admit that they have digressed into the realm of faith based religion, but they continue to inisist that they have not. In fact some members have accused me in various blog comments of having fallen into the Jail of Christian religion! Such a display of arrogance! Its one thing to scruitinize another's actions, but to judge their closeness to God is a tragedy as is is not our place to judge. No human, Master or otherwise is in a position to judge another human.

SRCM is lucky to have you. I pray that the hierarchy some day realizes what they have. I'm happy to see that you are not afraid to comment here and welcome your continued involvement and hope that you and the rest of us continue to benefit from it.



Michael

Shashwat said...

Rohit,

Your comments about my view's being extremist are correct, this what is called as ignorance, and avoiding the facts, if you read your previous post you will notice that you mentioned about SV saying all roads lead to thee, also you have mentioned the shlok from Gita which states that any person may choose any path as all path's ultimately reach me, using these statements you justified the existence of SRCM in public domain, ignoring the hard facts that faith cannot be blind, as you tried to mention that it is about practical spirituality, which unfortunately we have not been able to find that practicality, what we have observed is statements from the divine master stating that one must have faith, and practice should be tried for at least 3 months etc etc before any question can be asked... does this sound like practical spirituality ? well for me it is simply avoiding the answer to practical question, you cannot dismiss the fact's on the ground that it is extremist or otherwise, remember, there are people who still believe that Islam is moderate, without even noticing the consequence of such stand, so many people killed, so many women’s raped in name of faith, this is what all cults try and bring up.

I would also like to demonstrate to you few aspects of what you call as practical spirituality.

1. Messages are coming from dead people. (Kindly explain how practical this concept is)

2. Those messages are sold @ USD250/- (spirituality?)

3. Birthday Party of Chari, huge amount of money spent, and people are encouraged to donate. (Practical spirituality?)

4. Inserting fear into mind of foolish people, by saying that earth will be demolished in the year 2012.

5. Marrying people inside the community, thereby killing all scope of freedom.

6. Absolute mental slavery, no freedom of thought Emblem etc are trademark hence they must not be used for blogs orkut etc to open groups communities (Practical ? spiritual ?)

7. Falsely using name of Raja Yoga (spiritual ?)

8. Asking people to creating balance between family life and mission work.

this list is endless, all actions which are performed in SRCM are bogus and has no touch of spirituality or practicality for that matter.

You have also mentioned about meditation, cleaning and prayer.

what is called as meditation in SRCM.. think about the light coming from master's heart to your heart via preceptor's heart... whereas mediation as understood is the state of thoughtlessness... hence concept of meditation is an absolute contradiction from its essence. cleaning is what is called as running away from all your social and domestic responsibilities, you forgot to mentions the concept of erasing Samskara, take an example if you kill some-1 think that it is master who has actually executed that act, then according to SRCM’s practical spirituality it is master who is going to be hanged and not you.

Prayer is that I am week I am week I am slave I am slave, only master (Chari) is perfect.

Hence if you see with open eyes and open mind and open heart you will find that there is neither practicality in this group nor there are any traces of spirituality, in any case you have the freedom to continue ignoring facts and always trying to search what is good in this group, if there is any good it must be obvious, since we are trying to look for it, this itself implies that there is no good. Hence be practical and be spiritual, stay away from all the cults of this world, become one with what is called as God, who that already there in form of your wife, children and parents. You don't need a manipulator to worship, or do you ?

4d-don said...

Hi Rohit and all...

Yes I have felt good meditating and was even able to discern the quality of transmission from one preceptor to another, leading me to surmise that the "transmission" had some aspects or "impurities" from the (vessel) preceptor and the transmission was not "totally" from the divine.

It was not at that time, my intention to become more of (what I call looping back into materialism) what my preceptors were and when I met Chari, I saw (felt) where that "materialism" was coming from. I never returned to SRCM but I still meditate.

My "feelings" now are as "good" as with "prayer and meditation" in the Catholic Churches, and/ or in nature. The only difference is that it is now without "proxy" or "go-between" and I am communing directly with the ONE when I wish that and with the "Natural" aspects of the ONE at other times... So I expand from ONE (THEISM) to ALL (Pantheism) without guilt before ONE and ALL. But I never feel the "impurities" of the "MIND" and so I surmise that, for me, it is a better form of Raja Yoga (yoga of the mind) than with the "stripped down" raja yoga of the SRCM transmission with a preceptor or a Master...

Mind you, I did not feel that "materialism" and "ego" with Babuji (or Don S, my main preceptor) and his "style" allowed free thinking and so attracted thinkers and philosophers and true "rational" and serious "searcher". That does not mean that the transmission in Babuji's days was more "from God" or from a "more elevated" plane but I never felt that "materialism" of numbers...maybe I even felt special as increasing numbers and proselytizing was not encourage and the predominant feeling was one of having been "chosen". I had occasional experiences of "transcending"... that I also sometimes get from "direct contact" with what I call the ONE or UNITY! But my ONE is not the static "ULTIMATE" as there is not such ANIMAL, THING or SPIRIT..."IT" (ONE) IS IN MOTION AND DYNAMIC and never ENDS so is ETERNAL (SPACE) and the ways to describe IT are "INFINITE" (TIME).

How do I know? ONE TOLD ME SO!! lol

Levity...
(Can I assert firmly and fundamentally, (and without moving (budging)), that ALL is in motion and what is not in MOTION is not true and does not exist!! Even the ONE (What some call God)...
...IS that an "INVERTENDO"??...or an oxymoron? lol

Now, back to the "dialogue" issue... exept for you and a few like you, I feel from the SRCM abhyasis and preceptors their arrogance like a "torrent" of uncontrolled emotions even from those who have "recently" resigned from the Mission and are "on our side", so have been more exposed to the "Chari" influence...

And from others (that I see) I feel a "self centered-ness" almost to a lack of "morality", or Machievellianism (the end justifies the means) in daily affairs. They seem to feel that they are "invincible" and so become arrogant dismissive and "un-caring", even flaunting their "not caring" about the feelings of the person they are "conversing" with, as if they (we) were "unclean"... that would indicate to me a "fundamentalism" that was not "intended" in the "raja yoga? of Sahaj Marg (I mean that loosely) but that I see in most "fundamentalist" movement be it "Christian, Jew, Muslim, Hindu, Sikh, Vaishnava, or SRCM, etc...

Beside the meditation, (medication...lol) there are some parts of Chari's theological and philosophical statements that reflect a "mis-understanding" or an "un-evolved" philosophy (that he calls "no philosophy") from the point of view of some spiritual paths such as raja yoga but his theology and philosophy seems to match the more fundamental Vaishnava tradition which he studied for 7 years before going to Sahaj Marg and almost immediately (with his father who claimed to be a Master after a few weeks with SRCM) becoming an "influence" on Babuji and his MISSION, SRCM...

From the SMRTI site:

He took up a detailed study of this book (Bhagavad Gita) as well as other religious and spiritual texts. At the age of 30, he began Vaishnava traditional instruction in the Hindu religion. Seven years later, in 1964, he met his Master (Babuji) and started the practice of Sahaj Marg meditation.



Nice chatting with you... Remain true to your "spirit" and your path...You have more going for you than most that I have met in these last 31/2 years of "chat-line-ing" and "blogging" and "exchanging" barbs and arrows with the so-called "spiritual" meditators....

May you be blessed (as if you're not)...lol

"forgive me"...May you realize with gratitude,... your blessing....

A Acadian "inversion" or "backing talkwards" or an SRCM "invertendo"??

;-))

4d-don

Anonymous said...

Use of the term "Master" is very confusing in Sahaj Marg. When you ask a preceptor, who is Master, the answer you get different answers at different times. Why not have two terms to identify the representative and the real Master i.e. God himself?

4d-don said...

Hi anonymous...

Why change to clarity when confusion works so well to "enslave" and trap the naive, the gullible, "un-thinking" and "illogical"?

Religions have done this: assign contradictory attributes and qualities to the ONE, what some call God, as a MALE. Women who are traditionally the "receptor" or the "nester" in our species believe and live more "intuitively" than the male of the species who has had to develop logic for hunting and defense. It could be hormonal, with testosterone as the Logical and estrogen as the "intuitive" in a complementary relationship for a strong family or mating UNIT.

Relgion plays on the inability of children to distinguish between myth and reality also until the age of reason, usually tied to puberty and "hormones".

They are targeting women of menopausal age and children. The plan with religion is to attract the old women who will want to bring the kids and "teach" and the "logical" boys will be ensnared by their lust or desire for the "girls"

If women did not support religions, they would wither and die.

It's the typical case of old men, wanting in their old age to be cared for by adoring women and surrounded by children to "hear his tales" and his "words of wisdom"

It's the attempt to go down in history...

Who cares if it keep the girls as "chattel" or as "serfs" in the case of Sahaj Marg...

We need a "bill of responsibilities" as is proposed by the Citizens Assemblies in Europe that would define these acts of "intellectual terrorism" using fear of "damnation" or Hell, or "God help you if you leave Sahaj Marg" that Chari uses, to keep the "un-thinking" and the "gullible" and naive, serving an autocrat, even if he is benevolent.

Don...

Anonymous said...

I was/am part of after 10 years...although I must confess that I never left the religious practices that I had been doing since childhood, and never totally believed in SMarg( I am a hindu- born and brought up in India)No one in my family showed any interest.
The reason I did not leave but was sitting on the fence was the feeling system had some value..I am not able to say that Chari has no spiritual power...at least on one occasion I have experienced incredibly strong vibrations...however I always felt sick in the stomach when I found abhyasis deifying chari foolishly (things like by the grace of the master the bus was on time...slipped in the bath tub but did not get hurt etc...).

Also one senior functionary made out a strong case for increasing the membership of the mission- even so far as saying that one is not a good abhyasi if you don't bring new recruits.(Not ones spiritual inclination, but the contribution you have made in increasing the numbers is the yardstick!)

In terms of reading I never read anything other than the original babuji's books- any looked to Vivekananda for guidance..even visited the Ramakrishna Mission a few times.
I never did volunteer work and only contributed nominal amounts to cover the cost of food I was consuming etc). But now I am convinced that even if I decide to stick on, I will always see SRCM as an organisation that has to serve my spiritual interests, and the master as someone to serve spiritual seekers in all humility.

In short, I was always on the periphery, and I am happy to be so(unless I decide to leave altogether)


Fence-Sitter

Anonymous said...

Hi Fence-sitter...

Thanks for your candor...

I agree with you that Pyramidal structures can give "energy" to the users. Is that energy "Divine"? is the question that should be asked.

I have belonged to many Pyramidal structures (religion (Catholic) military, business, and other service and charitable organizations) and we all can admit that the energy of the group arranged in a Triangle or Pyramid creates a focus of energy at the points and is "POWERFUL". Military leaders have used the Triangle from time immemorial but we don't, or should not, think that they were all "divine" or "divinely Inspired". Power or energy does not make a thing DIVINE by itself although a thing has to have "energy" (or matter as in E=MC2), to be DIVINE (we think...we don't know...lol).

The state of BEING (outside of TIME) which is Spirituality does not necessarily impart a feeling of POWER to others around us, but is the "ENERGY" that I like. Sahaj Marg has become just like a "Pyramidal Business" or a "RELIGION". Religions are organized "spirituality". They serve the MASSES but do not necessarily make the Masses more DIVINE, HOLY, or SAINTLY.
Look at the crimes committed in the name of RELIGION by those who pray many times daily and receive "ENERGY" or POWER in these prayers.

"Divine" is what we want and like the other beautiful words we invent, the "manipulators" use them also. And the Masses want to believe that it is DIVINE. Other words that are misunderstood and "manipulated" are: PEACE, Sustainable Development, ONE, DIVINE, POWER, ENERGY, etc...
In the peace movement, we used to say: To fight for peace is like fornicating for virginity. To call material power "divine" is TRUE...But HITLER had MATERIAL POWER and was also DIVINE but not one to emulate if we want a PEACEFUL and SPIRITUAL world. Relgions all claim that the World will be ONE when all the people are in my CULT.

So Good luck in your search for the Divine. The Mirror is a good place to start and then the ONES around us. If we look into the eyes of a baby or a friend or a pet, or touch a tree, the soil, we see the Divine just as much as in the eyes of a BUSINESSMAN who spent his life making money and accumulating "MATERIAL" possession and builing Pyramidal structures that "focus" the energy of the GROUP, the MASSES.

May you be Blessed by ONE and ALL..

Don

Anonymous said...

Somebody aptly said "Americans are known for Innovation...Germans are known for precision...and Indians are known for _____? spiritual business...Chari is one fine example of an Indian spiritual businessman...Questions for the Abhyasis to ask
1. What is happenning to all the tons of money Chari is collecting, Is there any authority to audit and control the flow of money which is coming as donations from these brainwashed abhyasis...
2. Of all the spiritual organizations in the world, why Sahaj Marg has been listed as a cult...Why not other organizations like Ramkrishna mission...
3. Why Chari decides who should marry who...when to divorce...
4. Why Chari has so many court cases pending...If he is really a good spiritual person, then why so many court cases are against him...why not against other spiritual men...
You own your life and you should decide who to marry, not someone like Chari who is just an ordinary human being like any one of us...
No other person or group of persons owns your life...
To lose your life is to lose your future...
To lose your liberty is to lose your present...
To take life is murder...
To take liberty is slavery...
To take money is theft...
You have the right to protect your life, liberty, and your money that you earn from narcissists like Chari...Chari is just an ordinary human being and he has no right or claim that is higher than those of any other human being...
Chari spends all the money for his birthdays...Is this the trait of a so called spiritual person who claims to be God...
Chari has no right to steal, enslave, and to murder...
You cannot give these rights to someone like Chari which you do not have yourself...
You own your life and you are responsible for your life...
You do not rent your life from others like Chari who demand your obedience...
You are not a slave to someone like Chari who demands you to sacrifice...
You choose your own goals based on your own values...Not the goals set by Chari...who claims to be God...
Virtue can exist only when there is free choice...
It requires courage and intelligence to think, to talk, and to act...
To think, talk, and act implies questioning and that is what is absent in the abhyasis...In fact they argue meaninglessly with anyone who questions about Sahaj Marg...
In fact when someone proclaims he is spiritual, there is something unspiritual about him...
The farmer is a very spiritual man than anyone of us...He has many qualities that we don't possess...
Evil does not arise only from evil people, but also from good people who tolerate evil people like Chari...Good people have empowered evil people like Chari...who is a pseudo spiritualist...narcissist...and one who is interested in expanding his empire...
So friends of sahaj marg, please think, ask these questions yourself, try to see the difference between appearance and reality...Go online and see for yourself the cases in Supreme court on Chari...
-Ravi

Anonymous said...

"What's going on in Chari's mind...What must be Chari thinking of himself..." This is what he must be thinking...
I am a very clever man...Hats off to me...I am over 80 years old now, I have enjoyed my life, enjoyed women, enjoyed money, enslaved people, could do whatever I could, could brainwash people, like a snake charmer...people could sway to my tunes...could use the mantra of spirituality to enslave people...could forge documents to become the Head of SM...could control everything politically, judicially...I have lived like a King all my life...smoked dunhill brand of cigarettes...played with anyone I could...traveled around the whole world...collected tons of donations from these abhyasis...I
have not studied any Theology or Philosophy...brainwashed these abhyasis that sahaj marg does not rest on any Philosophy...brainwashed people to stop questioning, eliminated the importance of philosphical thinking...
brainwashed abhyasis and I am going to leave my spiritual legacy...These abhyasis are real fools like the goats or sheep...which follow as and when directed by their Master...The Master can use them
for milk, kill them for meat, cut their wool for making sweaters...The Master can use them as and when he wants for his own needs...

One day the Master or the owner thought "I have become old, I have tethered these goats, used these goats for milk, meat, and skin...I want to free the goats, leave the goats in the forests and let these animals lead a natural life in the forests..."

Until now Chari has been milking his abhyasis, draining them of their money, brainwashing them through transmission...etc etc etc

Moral: A true Master or Guru is someone who frees you from himself...

So Chari at least before dying free his abhyasis from him and let them lead a natural life...and end his expanding pseudo spiritual...narcissist empire...tell his followers to do justice to themselves and their families...
-Ravi

NOBLE PAUL said...

1)Feeding poor seems to be the most illustrated thing in here.So it means tht only rich can do tht?And there is no way a poor man can help other?

2)Chari has never said that he's god.

3)Inner circle of power:Could be true.Hvnt seen him yet.

4)None of you are tied to this right?Leave when you want to.
Regards

William said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Michael said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

To all...

1. I don't belong to any religion, or to the cult of person anymore. I communicate directly with the ONE.

2. I have the right to comment on any scam, be it religious or secular, and I will exert that right any time I feel that there is "ABUSE" of power. In the case of RELIGIONS, the abuse is mostly "MIS-representation" and "false claims". Sahaj Marg nor any other cult does not lead to the ONE. We are already inside the ONE and IT is INSIDE ALL, including HOMO SAPIENS. If there is a ONE, IT IS ALL...Some just don't realize it and some just sell IT...

In the WEST, we fought those battles with religion in the 1400's as we came out of the "dark ages" and into the "RENAISSANCE" or the Age of REASON... WE now have to help the EASTERN RELIGIONS REFORM and seperate from the theocratic tendencies of their feudal religions. The state and religions must be seperate. The problems we will face soon are GLOBAL, and we will need to "COME TOGETHER" and be ONE! Religions DIVIDE and Sahaj Marg has shown that it is just another RELIGION, and a cult of a PERSON..

Don...

sanjay srikantaiah said...

Michael
Firstly I do not intend to oppose you nor reply to you however unfortunately my level of evolution forces me too.
I am a new born abhyasi of sahaj marg compared to ur experience here. I am greatfully thankful to your/similar blogs which have brought light to my doubts due to lack of experience. Leaves me with How an idiot like me understands certain things which are so evident that experienced/fortunate/intellectual/intelligent
great men like you have not. The answer was simple with almost not much serious thought, Michael in serious conquest of God has been unable to loose Michael in him despite all help he could find so there he went looking for Michael's God or God Michael can find without having to forget Michael's ability to loose Michael in the process. you are right in that God is not limited to any source or mentor or guru or whatever it is, however I believe it is limited to Michael's limitations of its expectations and means.

Michael said...

Sanjay,

Thanks so much for following your compulsions and commenting here. I'm certain that your insightful advice will assist others in their respective conquests for God for generations to come.

You are absolutely correct! I have not succeeded in loosing myself in the process. I must agree that I have likely not achieved anything and I indeed may be destined to achieve "nothing". Is that bad?

What I have lost is the ability to conceive of God as a conquest. God simply IS. To that end I AM, You ARE, we all ARE. This is all that I can attest to as TRUTH. So you are correct that I have not succeeded in loosing myself in the process of achieving GOD.

I did find Jesus, however. He was hiding behind my couch the entire time!

Thanks again for the thought provoking comments. They were very helpful for me to better understand my spiritual predicament.


Michael

4d-don said...

Hi Michael and Sanjay...

Great Reply Michael... You are indeed not "LOST" ("loosed") and a WISE man... not a God, or a proxy for the ONE, or as some claim to be, the only "PATH TO the ONE"...ALL PATHS LEAD TO "ONE"...

We are all "hard-wired" for the "mystical experience" (what some call the GOD experience). We all, even as children seek out the MAGIC in life that will explain our life, "FORGIVE" our failings, and give us a place to "CONTINUE" living after the demise (transformation or death) through time of the carbon-based form we occupy in this world of n...dimensions.

Those who "Loose" themselves want the answer to come from the OUTSIDE of themselves rather than from the INSIDE...The message LOVE of Jesus, the Christ is much superior to the divisive and "conquest", teachings of Sahaj Marg, specially the Sahaj Marg of Chari, the Brahman businessman, who acts at dividing even the society that he claims makes him a MASTER... by the way, he says that he is a Master of HUMANITY, not of SPIRITUALITY, in other words, he can manipulate people through acaquiring "MATERIAL"..."Build a temple and they will come"

Where does the money come from?...it will be paid by the "sheep"...down the line, but will not assure a PATH TO THE "DIVINE EXPERIENCE" any more than the other RELIGIONS that he brands as "CORRUPT"...

The MAGIC in lIFE is everywhere...ONE just has to open the eyes, and the BRAIN and not think that there is more MAGIC in INDIA, ROME, JERUSALEM, MECCA, etc... The WORLD is MAGICAL where we Live...

I wish you a blessed sojourn on the JOURNEY (not the goal, conquest, war on, or DOMINATION, etc...) of LIFE...

Religions have a GOAL...GROWTH (evangelism)of the WORD that would cover the whole PLANET, like a cancer which is simply "GROWTH out of control"...

In SPIRITUALITY, the JOURNEY is the THING... BE here NOW...

PS...Sanjay (sockpupppet of "X") is one of the "cabal" who is trying to eliminate the WIKI article on SRCM and SM...Why? To hide their DEEDS and WORDS? I guess that makes him a CONQUEROR, or a CONQUISTADOR, or the Users of MILITARY vernacular on the path to pseudo-SPIRITUALITY...

At some point, even children grow up and see the REAL MAGIC in LIFE where they LIVE...and it is not the TRANSMISSION of Sahaj Marg that just transmits the "falsehhoods" of an elite to the CLONES and the "foot-soldiers" who are in the "conquest" of the divisiveness of MATTER and the MATERIAL...

BY THEIR FRUITS YE WILL KNOW THEM!
That is from the BIBLE of LOVE of JESUS,

Sanjay...LEARN and stop PREACHING.

4d-don...

Anonymous said...

Hey Sanjay...

From SRCM PR:

The Cleveland seminar who's motto was: "Here and Now or Never…" turns into "never, ever" since Chari has cancelled his visit for health reasons.

It is his son, P.R. Krishna who will come! He will be in North America April 26th to May 1st. He will also visit the centers in Dallas and Austin, Texas, Atlanta (Georgia), Dayton (Ohio), Chicago (Illinois), Detroit (Michigan) et Toronto (Canada).


Now that you have "conquered" GOD (the MALE), maybe you can help Krishna (Chari's son) buy another "piece of REAL ESTATE" as another "RETREAT" (wink-wink) for the rich so they can recoup their money-making pseudo-spirituality for the next "CONQUEST" of ??? THE whole WORLD or the UNIVERSE? Sound MEGALOMANIACAL? MASTERS OF THE UNIVERSE!! YOU should go right to HOLLYWOOD with that FANTASY!

The last SRCM (California) retreat in the US, the SPURS Ranch near AUSTIN, Texas, is an indication of the philosophy of the SRCM (California).

SPURS are an instrument of PAIN used on our brothers and sisters and our friends, the animals by other "pseudo-religious" so as to conquer them or to BREAK THEM or just for sensual PLEASURE (entertainment)...

SRCM (California) is EXPOSING its own moral corruption by its own WORDS and its own DEEDS...

How about a SRCM (California) "SPIRITUAL" retreat called the "GUN" or the "BOMB" or other military instruments of PAIN or "CONQUEST" as a place for the "wealthy" from your nationalist business elite, to rest from their journey of "making money" and gathering "REAL ESTATE"...and to travel "free of charge" around the world, invading and conquering other MATERIAL MARKETS...

Does SRCM not teach that SPIRIT is not MATTER?

Who is PR KRISHNA?? According to a young woman from SRCM in India, her e is what she has to say...

Who is PR Krisha? You will no doubt get a lesson in "SIMPLICITY" from PR Krishna (Chari's son)!!

Be a witness for the VICTIM...
Is Namrata still LIVING, Married and still in SRCM? Do you pay for Krishna's travels? Does he need the charitable "ASSISTANCE"?

This appeared on a blog by Namrata, a new abhyasi and was soon removed. You can see why! The blog was called: "A Search For The Truth".

# posted by namrata @ 11:58 PM 0 comments
Sunday, April 16, 2006

Warm house of Poor

Today was Krishna Bhaiya's house warming. He built a new house in Bangalore, Sarjapur Rd. Its a huge house. Master conducted satsang. Yesterday I expected that Krishna will give an open invitation to Blore abyases for Satsang but, there was no announcement regarding the same after morning satsang. I felt a bit upset as I have seen that middle class ppl are now a days giving open invitation to all abhyases for marriage reception. Why not Krishna?? He is big guy? After all ppl cannot be so disturbing. I am sure everyone understands that they should not disturb master.

He must be having his reason? But today morning we came to know that its an open invitation to all blore abhyases to attaend the satsang. I was GLAD.
Some abhyases were telling that master went all the way to Nasik for house warming of a rich abhyasi who built a palace like house.

I dont have any issues with master going and inaugrating big houses. Those ppl must be close to him or he may be bound to oblige. Somewhere i feel there is a contradiction in what Sahaj marg is teaching and following. Master tells make a simple house & one house is enough. Then why abhyases are making 3 0r 4 houses?

I dont have credibility to tell master not to go for house warming of riches. But, I havnt seen or heard that he has gone to the house warming of poor too.
I feel there is a gap widening between poor & rich in abhyases. Many abhyases feel tat master gives attaention to only those who are rich. Physical nearness is only for rich...poor has to just stand in queue waiting forever.

love
namrata

# posted by namrata @ 11:24 PM 1 comments
Sunday, April 09, 2006

This was the last post on this blog...

# posted by namrata @ 2:14 AM 0 comments
Tuesday, April 18, 2006

Answer to :Warm house of poor

Hi,

In my last post i was upset as why sahaj marg phylosophy is not followed by master's own son. Well i got the answer, we should see only our master as example not even his son. Well his son may have built many houses but not master. So we should not get upset by somebody doing something which does not match the phylosophy of sahaj marg. Master is working every moment for upliftment of humanity. He has no other aim.
I just need to help him in this. This should be my role. Thas all, period!!!

# posted by namrata @ 11:58 PM 0 comments
Sunday, April 16, 2006


4d-don

Vedic_chants said...

while i have had oppurtuinity to try TM ( transcendental meditation) briefly, I started SRCM a about 6 months are so. I had no prior knowledge of experience of how a Transmission is felt or how at all it works (i was not explained by precepters nor i read in any book by SRCM), however, while in meditation suddenly the whole body started vibrating violently and persisted for 15 second or so (may be I opened my eyes out of fright)... later on I learnt that that is the experience of transmission at grosser levels. this I came to know while studying a book on meditation (extracts of replies of babuji to abyasi's or short speaches etc). Such an experience never occured to me in TM sessions.
Coming to previos blogs on Inner circles, it is in my 28 long years of working in various organisation,
any organisation -corporate / religious or spiritual has the inner circles. I recently joined a company about 9months back,a small setup of 15+ people. Here too I see a lot of power struggle/ inside circles who want to be close to MD and want to stoop to any level to get favours etc. then what about SRCM. My long career experience and seeing bitter days in life has tought me that, while all these do hurt when one is part of such an organisation/ system one should not get swayed away from the goal one want to pusue. Be it the path of self realisation if that is what one is seeking. so, better let others mind their dirty business while one can silently attain nirvana... or moksha... or the eternel bliss by being non attached with such events as long it does not directly affect his sadhana, life or survival.

Michael said...

Hi Vedic Chants,

I agree that one must not let the dirty business of a hierarchy infect ones own growth and progress.

With that said however, I have concluded that any system that is fixated on individual achievement of a discrete goal (central region, moksha, liberation, nirvana) misrepresents the spiritual journey as a commodity that is achieved in exchange for something.I've come to believe that these "achievements" are signposts and not relevant at all to the quality of the human being.

We are all on a journey that is infinite. It is how we conduct ourselves in that journey that is key. Accepting that we are exactly who we need to be right now is the only achievement worth achieving - and it isn't actually an achievement at all but an ongoing process that one must persist in maintaining.

Corrupt hierarchies prevail in every aspect of life. Business, spiritual and religious organizations all have them. I believe this is due to a primitive aspect of human nature that either chooses to enslave others or be enslaved. This human bondage duality is in fact two sides of the same coin. Both the enslaved and the enslaver are entrapped in this duality.

The ongoing spiritual journey is about conducting oneself in a manner that rises above this duality. This is not an achievement, but an ongoing effort that must be sustained regardless of the experiential signposts one encounters on the journey.

When those who have achieved "higher" spiritual attainments, enslave the "lower" masses, have they really achieved anything at all? Are they not bound by the same duality?


I conclude that one can rise above this duality regardless of one's perceived position in life or spiritual level of achievement.



Michael

Anonymous said...

Vedic Chant...

You say:

however, while in meditation suddenly the whole body started vibrating violently and persisted for 15 second or so (may be I opened my eyes out of fright)... later on I learnt that that is the experience of transmission at grosser levels. this I came to know while studying a book on meditation (extracts of replies of babuji to abyasi's or short speaches etc). Such an experience never occured to me in TM sessions.


And you call this experience "spiritual"? Is FEAR now a SPIRITUAL experience to you? Is that not the FEAR/TEMPTATION mechanisms used by all "cults"? Is there not an "experience" in Hypnosis also? Or is there not an "experience" in many other collective experiences such as "rock concerts", sport events, etc.? Even Oprah is thought to be "divine" and people are miraculously cured of illness when she enters the room...Does that not speak to emotions, the power of the mind, and other yet "mis-understood" phenomenon(s) such as binaural beats, and the mystical experience, the megalomania and other delusions of grandeur that accompanies the "grand-mal" seizures of epileptics (as St. Paul was thought to suffer from).

I have personally experienced that "shaking" and AWE or FEAR at many occasions but never attached it to GOD or the DIVINE!! It is a psychological and a collective or "sociological" event. Join a secular group and test it out honestly. YOU can make it happen by yourself... Shaking for 15 seconds is recorded in many "HOLY" books...Is the ONE EVERYWHERE THEN? the answer is YES! So SRCM is just selling AIR, SUNSHINE, that we all have as we are "HARDWIRED" for that mystical experience and we will find it SOMEWHERE!

I amaze at the readiness and willingness to attach any "emotions" such as awe, fear, etc..to the DIVINE rather than to a "sociological" and/or psychological" cause...

I dont' think we humans can blame GOD anymore for our "immorality" on the path to the GREAT MORALITY...

What is seen at SRCM (California) by those who have their EYES OPEN WIDE is not MORAL, ETHICAL and not even LEGAL, according to the laws of MAN, if we believe the court judgements coming down from the secular courts in India.

Please, don't attach to THE ONE, the CREATOR, what is the product and the games of the MATERIALIST Businessmen who are part of the ALL, the CREATED. The "focus" on the heart of the SUFIs as in "TWO ON A HEART", is not any different than the "two on a mind" of hypnosis, or other psycho-therapies, or the games of children that go: "I can make you say YES... or NO"...It will happen, and most will say the word I chose, but it is not the ONE doing it, It is DON...just as in your "collective" experience, it is the STAR that you create (Chari, Babuji), not the ONE, what some call GOD, the MALE...

Most of us who have experienced other "mystical" paths, have also experienced Mystical events in other Paths...Either the DIVINE is MULTI, not ONE or it is DIVISIVE as most religions claim their path to be UNIQUE, even to the point of usurping other's Practices, as with SRCM has done with SUFISM since LALAJI, a SUFI MASTER OF THE Naqshbandiyya Order...

It would be like the Catholics claiming that PRAYER works and that all prayers are "answered" and that PRAYER was invented by CHRIST...we all know it is not TRUE...And they would not dare...But SRCM dares...and it fools the neophytes, the naive and the gullible, and the "co-dependents" who don't want to take responsibility for their LIVES and FATES...and want to FOLLOW.

4d-don....

Anonymous said...

How well I understand the lethal influence of this guru and fake on my very intelligent and well educated daughter and her husband. Once she became involved she began pulling away from me and the loving person she was. It breaks my heart that they cannot see how fraudlent it is. I have very little contact and she treats me with disdain because I have stood up for christianity and against her participation in this hoodoo. I no longer believe I have any recourse but to lose my child to a wicked man who has no right to control her or take her mind from her. It is so unfortunate that this group or any cult is allowed to sow their seeds of evil on college campuses or to thrive in my country, the USA. If there is a solution I do not know and I lost a daughter whom I gave birth to and nurtured and loved. It breaks my hurt.